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Shooting Time-Lapse with Medium Format Cameras

Joe Taylor

Joe Taylor

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Anybody have much experience shooting night exposures with medium format systems? I'm involved with an upcoming project where the producers are sending me to the Grand Canyon and Arches National Park to shoot time-lapse sequences with their Hasselblad 501 (a system that I have used many times) coupled with a 50 mp CFV-50 digital back. The idea is to make panoramic prints from the full frame exposures and 2.35 crops for the time-lapse segments. The biggest hurdle is going to be lens speed. They really want those powerful Milky Way shots and so do I, but lens speed is going to be the biggest hurdle. The fasted wide(ish) lenses found are 2.8 which isn't bad. I'll be shooting some tests this week in the Mohave National Preseerve.

I'm pretty comfortable with this shoot but any advice from you Hassie shooters regarding the best way to approach this would be welcomed.

*Back in 2002 to 2005 I had a beautiful Forest Green Hasselblad 501 CM that I am really kicking myself for selling. Those old school Hassie's had so much more character than the new Fuji influenced bodies.
 
Noise will be the bigger issue. Nowhere near as clean as with modern DSLRs. High ISO from the CFV50 is frankly terrible, coupled with a low base ISO and slow glass. I would recommend CaptureOne for processing. Good Luck. M
 
If you are doing time lapse, then high ISO is not really needed. You can use a Low ISO and a slow lens with long exposure times of 30 seconds, 1 to 3 minutes, etc., and get really clean images.
 
Todd T said:
If you are doing time lapse, then high ISO is not really needed. You can use a Low ISO and a slow lens with long exposure times of 30 seconds, 1 to 3 minutes, etc., and get really clean images.
Click to expand...

Todd, with all due respect, you obviously haven't done it before. He will run out of the night time with 3 minute exposure to get a decent duration shot...unless he is shooting in winter in Antartica :)

Also, incorrect about the ISO...you need HIGH ISO, like 3200 at the very least and FAST lens F/1.4 and even then it is marginal.
 
Sorry, I meant that for the panoramic prints....
Besides, that back only goes up to ISO 800.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Todd, with all due respect, you obviously haven't done it before. He will run out of the night time with 3 minute exposure to get a decent duration shot...unless he is shooting in winter in Antartica :)

Also, incorrect about the ISO...you need HIGH ISO, like 3200 at the very least and FAST lens F/1.4 and even then it is marginal.
Click to expand...

With all due respect you obviously haven't done this before either... ...ISO3200 on that set-up will be noisy as hell and good luck with finding an f/1.4 lens for a Hassy...

Astrophotography is much easier to achieve with a Canon 1DS mkIV and a 24mm f/1.4L - but that's not really answering the original question.
 
I haven't shot timelapses (yet) - but I think it will be tough. I just found some star fields I shot a few years back with a H3DII-50 - so same Kodak sensor as in the CFV back. I shot this system for a couple of years. Base ISO is 50. At f/2.2 (100mm - fastest H lens) & 30s - stars were only just bright enough (no moon or milky way). The WA lenses are slower. Signal to noise at anything greater than ISO50 on this back becomes a problem. Longer than 30s and presumably you will get star trails - so you are (highly) ISO, time and aperture constrained. I think it will be a struggle to be honest. Plus, my shots were just test shots. Timelapse will lead to lots of heat generation and thus more noise - the H backs weren't really designed to dissipate this over extended periods. Let me know if you want the RAWs I shot - happy to share.
 
Liam Hall said:
With all due respect you obviously haven't done this before either... ...ISO3200 on that set-up will be noisy as hell and good luck with finding an f/1.4 lens for a Hassy...

Astrophotography is much easier to achieve with a Canon 1DS mkIV and a 24mm f/1.4L - but that's not really answering the original question.
Click to expand...

Liam, I shot dozens of Milky Way time lapses. Of course, on the Hassy ISO 3200 will be unusable...just as any other ISO...and at ISO 50 you won't be able to see any stars at all.I wouldn't use Hassy for this purpose. Yes, it is much easier with a DSLR. Even Canon 5D II can give decent results. Nikon 3Ds gives the best results.
 
As noted above, High ISO on a digital back is just scary. I have a Phase One P65+ and never shoot it over ISO 100. The P65+ does have a shooting mode called "Sensor+" where it drops the resolution from 60mp to 15mp and boosts the ISO. I've shot that way up to ISO 800... but then there goes your resolution. Almost none of these backs are good for long exposures either... typically 30 seconds at best. The one exception that I am aware of is the Phase One P45+ which can actually do up to an hour long exposure. I've shot that one up to about 15 minutes with good luck... but then... when the exposures get that long you've blown your TL interval. Unfortunately, I just can't see a good way to do this with MFDB's.
 
There are times when the professionals must gently insist to the producers that the right equipment for the job is not what the producer suggests (and happens to own), but is what the professional in his experience knows is right. BTW, what does Tome Lowe use for astro time lapse? Enough said.
 
agreed with everything above. Digital Backs will not get you great night skies with stars. If you want to see almost no star trail, you need to use less than 30 second exposures, so good DSRL such as 5D Mark II at 1600 or 3200 ISO and fast lens, faster the better. You could consider using tracking device to shoot for the stars, so they don't trail at all, but than your land will move, and you will need to combine exposure of land and stars. That can be done if you are shooting an arch. If you want to print large panorama with milky way, you can stitch multiple exposures from DSLR to get wider angle and better resolution. Example: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090219.html
 
Just use the Canon 5D2. It will smoke all those medium format cameras for astro timelapse. 3200 ISO does look pretty good but you can always go down one notch in ISO and the cameras processing will save you a little noise. Of course adjust your exposure time to make up for the change in light. There are many ways to shoot astro timelapse with a DSLR. I know Tom has gotten some really good results with the 1D Mark 4. But it's sensor is smaller than the 5D2. Of course the 1D4 that Tom is using has a PL mount and he's using a 16mm Master Prime, which work really well together.
 
I didn't mean to imply that the producers are locked into this format. They have this camera and a new digital back. Will be testing it all tomorrow. We always have (3) 5D's to rely on. We'll be good!
 
Star Trails = Motion Blur </ducks> ;-)
 
Radim Schreiber said:
agreed with everything above. Digital Backs will not get you great night skies with stars. If you want to see almost no star trail, you need to use less than 30 second exposures, so good DSRL such as 5D Mark II at 1600 or 3200 ISO and fast lens, faster the better. You could consider using tracking device to shoot for the stars, so they don't trail at all, but than your land will move, and you will need to combine exposure of land and stars. That can be done if you are shooting an arch. If you want to print large panorama with milky way, you can stitch multiple exposures from DSLR to get wider angle and better resolution. Example: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090219.html
Click to expand...

Yes, I was going to comment mainly on exposure times. Above 30 seconds you already have trail and if your goal is a sharp rendition of stars, it's a no go.

At f1.7 at ISO 1000 I could get a decent exposure of a night sky with a 20 second exposure:



Bear in mind that this place was not free from light pollution, there were lots of artificial sources nearby.

So if you want a more vivid sky than this you better use a camera that puts out a clean ISO 1600 and a fast (sub f2) lens.
 
Hello Pietro

What sort of setup were you using here if you do not mind sharing? The 501 I'll be using (testing) just came today and I've been working with the back all night. Just by doing some quick shots here in Vegas with time-exposures I can tell already that it is not near fast enough for what I'll be doing. At about ISO 300 the noise picks up considerably and with each consecutive exposure noisier than the last as the sensor heats up. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do any real daytime time-lapse work either.
I'll be testing some of the gear later this morning in the Mohave just across the state line. It's 2:00 am and still hotter than hell.

I think what will happen is that I'll shoot the time-lapse work with my Red and the 5D for night skies and I'll set the Hasselblad up next to the time-lapse cameras working the same composition. Then they'll have those 50MP files that they really looking for. That's how I used to do all my 35mm time-lapse work. The Arriflex got its hands dirty doing all the real work and I always had a Canon 1V, and in later works a 617 Hasselblad, shooting Fuji RDPIII Provia 100 and 400 chromes.
 
Very Nice, Pawel. Where did you shoot this? I'm fascinated with how the night skies are dramatically different when seen from different hemispheres. Look forward to when I can get to Australia.
 
Joe Taylor said:
Very Nice, Pawel. Where did you shoot this? I'm fascinated with how the night skies are dramatically different when seen from different hemispheres. Look forward to when I can get to Australia.
Click to expand...

Shot it from my office in Tassie no light polution and didn't even lose any sleep :)
I will post another one shot at f/1.4 after Telstra gives my Internet bandwith back on 9 September...
 
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