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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shooting in -20C

Jay, I've heard of people doing it with positive results. I've never done it myself.

I also saw a comment once from someone who was concerned about leakage from an overheated battery. As some batteries get down to the last 10% or so they get very hot. Not very sure about the % number but I've noticed similar behavior with other batteries. The concern would obviously be that at that point the warmers might be too much heat for the casing. Can't be too careful. Perhaps the solution, and a better workflow, would be to replace batteries more frequently and not use the warmers. Add to that some sort of pouch for the working battery to provide a bit of insulation and fast 4x charger in a running car or other heated environment and you should be golden.

Logic tells me to save the warmers for the body, LCD and EVF which would remain outside and wouldn't pose any danger. In such low temps they wouldn't run the risk of becoming overheated either. The only one that worries me a bit is the thin LCDs, but with so much un-covered surface area on the front I seriously doubt anything bad could ever happen.

I wonder if anyone has info on MackBooks, RAID arrays, RRockets, and Panasonic production monitors. We plan to have clear tents with heaters but any info would be appreciated.
 
what about an evf, our was in -5 to -9 degrees and looks bad with solarization, when i added dark detail, picture looks better. any pocket warmers doesn't help.
 
Try shooting at -20C, in a howling gale, being roasted on one side, to the accompaniment of airborne ash and a sulphuric acid aerosol!

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First question is will RED survive? Second question is, how many brains will I get through?!

Mike
 
I shot for Oakley (!) 14 hours yesterday in 25 below zero F, about 50% outside, but moving from -25-ish F outside (record lows, Aspen, CO) to +70f inside all day. Red MX rock solid as usual. We've learned tricks -

1. EVF needs multiple chemical warmers gaffed on. The weakest link. Use LCD if possible, too much trouble. Yesterday the DP wanted it, so hand warmers-r-us.
2. One crew member keeps track of lens "temp balance" and transitions. Hair dryers from hair and makeup always helpful moving inside.
3. Our batts seem to last LONGER in the extreme cold - odd - but our theory is limited fan usage.
4. Keep batts in pockets, as usual. Or use the expensive cold rated batts, which do actually work no matter what for the price. FWIW, our red bricks worked perfectly fine yesterday for hours in -10 to -25F.

If it were not for the EVF, I'd say red deserved an award for building a true tank!
 
Marcus Struzina said:
Mike, where is that volcano, looks beautiful.
Click to expand...

Fimmvörðuháls. March 2010. The first stage of the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in Iceland that caused so much chaos amongst airlines and newscasters :biggrinjester:

Mike
 
Shot for about 5 hours, starting early morning on 2/2. It was -19°F here with the wind-chill putting it close to -31°F. RED performed like a champ.

Some more things I've learned about the RED and cold weather...

* Leave the EVF at home unless you have a heater like Jay Kelly's. And if it's below -15°F, leave it and the heater at home...

* If starting up at really cold, sub-freezing temperatures, and the camera doesn't want to start, unplug everything except the battery. Make sure the battery is fully charged and not frozen. If it's not a RED Brick you might be hosed. So far every 190Wh V-Lock battery I have tried on RED doesn't hold up under high power draw situations or cold situations the way RED Bricks do. I have also had issues with block batteries in the cold. I think a lot comes down to not only the cold, but the RED One is also very finicky about power draw and what is actually coming in.

* Power connectors. Both on the camera and the LEMO cable can contract in the cold. Same with the LCD/EVF connectors, but not to the same extent. They seem to maintain themselves when power is flowing, except in extreme cold (-25°F and colder). A pocket torch can be handy for warming up such things. But don't do it unless you know what you're doing -- the last thing you want to do is scorch something or melt a small pin or part of your cable.

* At -5°F or colder, you better have plenty of warming packs (sticky-backed ones are best) stick one on the back of your LCD to keep it from freezing.

* Lenses... Ah, they suffer too. Many lubricants you find in lenses will start to freeze up at -15°F or so. Some of them in temperatures less cold. Lens components can also contract in the cold. Just watch out. If a lens starts to feel real tight or even locked up, DON'T FORCE IT.

* Clamps, components, plastics... All can contract and become more brittle in extreme cold. Rod clamps that were tightened in warm environments could become loose and slip if the temperature drops enough. Always loosen all rod clamps on frozen equipment before returning it to warmer temperatures.

* Condensation. This is a big one and effects lenses more than cameras. But when you go from a freezing outdoor shoot to an indoor area or warmer area with about the same or more humidity, you can see water condense on the cold surfaces. Typically frozen areas have lower humidity, but not always. If the humidity is markedly lower in the cold, it's not a bad idea to bag the equipment in an air-tight way and then bring it into the warm. That will keep the humidity around the equipment at a lower level while it warms up. The cold air in the bag will expand as it warms and inflate the bag. It will be easy to notice any internal condensation (use clear bags) and take any steps that may be needed to address the situation.

If it's -15°F or warmer and your RED One won't start. Especially if you know the battery is not frozen and the LEMO connector on your power cable is OK, then you probably need to have RED take a look at the camera. I've seen a handful of reports over the past year or so about a RED One not working "in the cold" and people are talking about temps that are right at freezing, sometimes even above freezing. All I can say is that someone is doing it wrong or there is something wrong with the camera.

Saw a tweet by Rodney Charters yesterday about it being too cold to start up their RED One. My guess is it's a power draw issue. Quite a few things attached to the camera, even the EVF. I should've probably responded to ask how cold it was. And maybe to offer a few suggestions. I don't know, maybe they got it sorted...

I was hoping to have an EPIC-X by now, to test in the cold. But it looks like all the cold will be gone before I get it. Will have to look to the guys on the southern half to give the cold weather reports, I think. Anyway, I'll test in the heat this summer... Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico... hot.
 
Fantastic summary Jeff. It should be sticky-ed.

Jeff Kilgroe said:
* Lenses... Ah, they suffer too. Many lubricants you find in lenses will start to freeze up at -15°F or so. Some of them in temperatures less cold. Lens components can also contract in the cold. Just watch out. If a lens starts to feel real tight or even locked up, DON'T FORCE IT.
Click to expand...

I've heard of front elements cracking, literally cracking from rushing a lens from warm temperatures to extreme cold. I think it was MPs and the day was around -20F with wind, but why risk it? Always acclimate lenses slowly. The outside layer of the front element can contract faster than the inside of the same element, and without warning the front element becomes two elements, or more. xP

Jeff Kilgroe said:
* Condensation. This is a big one and effects lenses more than cameras. But when you go from a freezing outdoor shoot to an indoor area or warmer area with about the same or more humidity, you can see water condense on the cold surfaces. Typically frozen areas have lower humidity, but not always. If the humidity is markedly lower in the cold, it's not a bad idea to bag the equipment in an air-tight way and then bring it into the warm. That will keep the humidity around the equipment at a lower level while it warms up. The cold air in the bag will expand as it warms and inflate the bag. It will be easy to notice any internal condensation (use clear bags) and take any steps that may be needed to address the situation.
Click to expand...

I assume the steps you mention include the use of one or more Pelican silica blocks or alternate. Putting them inside the bag just before sealing it would really help make this a very effective practice cold to warm transitions.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I've heard of front elements cracking, literally cracking from rushing a lens from warm temperatures to extreme cold. I think it was MPs and the day was around -20F with wind, but why risk it? Always acclimate lenses slowly. The outside layer of the front element can contract faster than the inside of the same element, and without warning the front element becomes two elements, or more. xP
Click to expand...

Yep. It can happen. You also have to be very careful when shooting outdoors in the cold when sunlight is concerned. Direct sunlight on your gear can cause rapid heating and condensation or other effects. All things considered, lens elements should not crack as most are tempered glass that is then ground. But if there is a flaw in the glass or in the mounting, it could break.

I assume the steps you mention include the use of one or more Pelican silica blocks or alternate. Putting them inside the bag just before sealing it would really help make this a very effective practice cold to warm transitions.
Click to expand...

Very good point that I completely spaced on. Using a desiccant like silica gel inside cases or with bagged equipment can be an effective way of absorbing the excess moisture. I admit I don't worry about condensation much around here as it's so dry. Usually where there's problems is if I'm shooting snow sports and then head indoors where people park vehicles or bring their other snow gear. Melting snow tends to raise the humidity a lot near storage areas, parking garages, etc.. Another factor in all of this is salt. Often the salt levels are very high in areas where it's used to help melt ice/snow or in regions with salty sea air. Condensation is doubly bad if there's a high salt content.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
* Lenses... Ah, they suffer too. Many lubricants you find in lenses will start to freeze up at -15°F or so. Some of them in temperatures less cold. Lens components can also contract in the cold. Just watch out. If a lens starts to feel real tight or even locked up, DON'T FORCE IT.
Click to expand...

I recall, many years ago, lenses (and other equipment) destined for extreme (expedition) conditions, being sent out for service, to be cleaned and re-lubed with a special low-temp lubricant. Is this still done, to anyone's knowledge? Or are modern standard lubricants about as good as it gets when it comes to low-temp performance?

Mike
 
Hey Jeff,

We can do better than -20 degrees F under the following conditions:

Both batteries need to be set to level 6.

You have to turn the heater on when it is still above 50 degrees. (I.E. turn it on in your room, or in the car)

You have 8 hours that we KNOW OF.. Beyond that you are on God's good humor.

Truth is, our heater has yet to meet it's match. That's because the endurance model had TWO heaters built into it. Some Dense Foam insulation on top of that, and 6mm neoprene on top of that, and then soft velcro material to break up the wind on top of that.

Actually we worry more about damage from HEAT from a careless operator than we do the cold. In other words: One time a very dim AC turned on both heaters and battery levels were set to 9. Then he left it in his room for 2 hours. When he came to get it, he noticed it was VERY warm, our of curiosity he stuck his finger in the insulation, and burned his finger.

Glad to say the EVF worked fine, but there is a lot of power there.. The batteries we use are AMAZING.. They are lithium polymer and work very well in cold.

Yeah... I'm proud of it. It's not bullet proof, and I am sure it has it's limits,, But I think it's pretty cool...

Truth is, at these temps, I'd start to worry more about the other equipment than the EVF if you have an ArcticX
Jay
 
Hehe.. Cool, Jay <pun intended> And I think you have said all that before, I just forgot. I would've bought one if I still had the original EVF. I'm anxious to see how the Bomb handles in the cold. It's supposed to have an integrated heater (I think). We may need a Bomb edition of the ArcitcX.

You're right about the cold temps. When it starts getting below about -25F, that's when a lot of gear starts to fail. NiCd and many types of Lithium cells begin to freeze hard. LCD displays freeze up. At -35F cells in LCD displays can actually split as they crystalize.

I'm anxious to see how the Epic with titanium lens mount holds up in the cold. I always check the FFD in super cold temps once the camera is up and running for 30 minutes or so. I haven't seen big disparities with temperatures on the mounts, but there have been two occasions where I was able to dial it in a bit better for the cold vs. where it was set in a 65F prep room.

Which also reminds me. In case anyone didn't derive it from above. Always unmount lenses from the camera when acclimating to new temperatures.

I have also found that the crew, myself included, also tends to fail at temps colder than -25F and at temps colder than about -5F, there's a lot of compulsory whining.
 
Regarding condensation. I have my lenses in plastic bags with silica inside the lens case. I also have camera and drives in air tight cases with silica drying bags.

A very effective way of protecting the camera and electronics is not to power down if possible. Have plenty of power. Avoid deep freezing any gear. Try to have gear in some case or in a car or under a blanket just to save some degrees of heat.

I have also done a black balance when camera have "warmed" up in extreme cold.
My method is to have a big overall and have batteries and drives close to my body :)
 
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