Shooting 3K16:9@50fps (rain) vs 2K

[Antonio Forjaz]

Hi all,
I am shooting a commercial on Sunday, and the Director wants all the shots in slow motion, but at the highest resolution possible. How does 3K16:9 at 50fps look?
He does not need super slow.
Up until now I have only had the chance to shoot 2K (my Nikkon mount will only be out of customs on friday), so I will only have 1 day before to do any tests.
Will I notice a very big difference between 2K and 3K?
There is a rain sequence, simple one, an old couple under a umbrella. I want the rain to stand out. Will 50 fps do it? Should I also use the shutter?
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Tom Turley]

In my experience 3k 50fps is a great trade off between frame size/resolution and maximum fps. If you want it, you can have the shallower depth of field, and 50fps is enough to look effective in many situations. I always try to shoot 3k 50fps when slomo is needed but the full 100 or 120 isnt necessary.

Generally, I avoid 2k where at all possible, but I did relatively recently operate on a music video all shot at 120fps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXfAkBPlmvY) and was pleasantly surprised at well it all held up.

As for the rain, backlight it to make it show up, or shoot towards the natural light (east in the morning, west in the afternoon).

---------------------------------------------------------
www.filmtom.com

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

Thanks Tom for your advice, I will shoot 3K 50p fps. I do really want the shallow DOF for these situations, and I will backlight the rain.
Any idea about changing the shutter to make the rain pop out even more?
I don't need super slomo, the situations don't call for it, and if 3K is nice then I will be fine.
When shooting 3K, how much does the 35mm lenses change compared to 4K (field of view) Am I correct to assume there will be some change? Will for example a 50mm look more like a 70mm?

 

[Mark Andersen]

Using a fast shutter will help with the rain. I like to go to 1/192 or so if I have the light. my 2 cents.

 

[Dominic Jones]

Also, at 3K you just about have the resolution (for a 1080p finish, which I assume is the intended final resolution?) to shoot 3K 2:1 and crop to 16:9 (remember to shoot a framing chart!) - if you do that, you can get up to 60fps.

I also second Mark's advice re: higher shutter speeds, and of course backlight is a must, as previously mentioned...

HTH,
Dom.

 

[Steve Gibby]

3k Redcode re-samples very nicely down to 1080p - a much better 1080p finish than from 2k Redcode. If you edit in FCP, a 1-light color correction, and re-sampling down to 1080p ProRes 422 HQ is easy in RED Alert and REDCine. In RED Alert and REDCine you can 1-light and re-sample down to 1080p in a number of other file types depending on what files you need for your editing system.

If I were shooting what you described, and no on-camera audio was needed, I would probably set up RED One as follows: 3k 16x9, RC36, project frame rate of 23.98, ISO 400, Varispeed to 50 fps (over 50% slow motion on playback), and a shutter speed of around 125th second. You mentioned the director doesn't need super slow motion, so this formula should work well for you.

If you do need slower than that (60 fps for your slow motion) then yes, as Dominic suggested, you can get it if you shoot RC28 in a 2:1 aspect ratio - and shoot a framing chart as he suggested.

The backlight suggestions to make the rain "pop" are very good. If possible, use natural light for that, in other words set up the camera in a location so that you can shoot the rain backlit or side-backlit.

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

Thanks to Tom, Steve, Dominic and Mark for all the great advice, I will post a pict of my results on sunday night. Thank you once again.
Steve, my final is in PAL, so I will go for project frame rate of 25. Varispeed 50 fps, should I maintain shutter around 125'th second? I don't think I need 60 fps, so I will stick to 3k 16x9. You think there is a big difference between RC36 and RC28? My problem is at the moment I only have 1X8GB CF card and 1X16GB CF card, my RED Drive still is on back order.... So RC28 would give me a little bit more recording time... but if the quality difference is BIG then I will just have to live with downloading every few takes to my computer. What you think?

 

[Steve Gibby]

Happy to help Antonio...

A project frame rate of 25 fps, and Varispeed up to 50 fps, with a shutter speed of 125th second will give you a nice smooth 50% slow motion playback.

In my experience, there is not a big quality difference between RC28 and RC36. If someone is shooting footage for green screen or heavy graphics layering, then yes, they should probably shoot in RC36. For a normal HDTV, standard definition PAL or NTSC delivery, in my opinion RC 28 is just fine - especially if using RC28 gets you a higher frame rate if needed.

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

Thanks again Steve.