Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
Tips/settings for how to make sure to shoot a flat as possible video?
Thanks,
Daniel
Thanks,
Daniel
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Setting up a flat in camera look
- Thread starter Daniel Soderberg
- Start date
Stephen Pruitt
Well-known member
How about lighting it as flat as possible?
Stephen
Stephen
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
No settings are necessary, we always record RAW, which is utterly flat. You get to decide how to "develop" the RAW image.
Graeme
Graeme
Hi Daniel,
I think what you are looking for is a very flat lookup table or "look" for viewing?
You have several options:
1. If you set your viewing space to raw you can use the histogram and exposure meters to insure that you are recording maximum dynamic range in a scene by "filling the gamut" without clipping high or low. Expose to the right, meaning as far to the right without clipping as possible.
2. Another option would be to create a custom look in the latest redcine x. You can take a clip of a test chart, a human face, or whatever it is you like to shoot.
A. Load your clip in redcineX.
B. change your color and gamma To Redcolor 2, redlogfilm.
C. Note where your waveform sits. You can even take a screenshot.
D. Switch back to Redcolor, Redgamma.
E. Use _curve_ adjustment to make your waveform match the rc2/rLF waveform as close as possible to the flatter look.
F. Export your look to an sd card (1gb or smaller)
G. Load to your camera.
Now Your on set monitoring look should be closer to RC2/Redlogfilm (flatter looking)
I think what you are looking for is a very flat lookup table or "look" for viewing?
You have several options:
1. If you set your viewing space to raw you can use the histogram and exposure meters to insure that you are recording maximum dynamic range in a scene by "filling the gamut" without clipping high or low. Expose to the right, meaning as far to the right without clipping as possible.
2. Another option would be to create a custom look in the latest redcine x. You can take a clip of a test chart, a human face, or whatever it is you like to shoot.
A. Load your clip in redcineX.
B. change your color and gamma To Redcolor 2, redlogfilm.
C. Note where your waveform sits. You can even take a screenshot.
D. Switch back to Redcolor, Redgamma.
E. Use _curve_ adjustment to make your waveform match the rc2/rLF waveform as close as possible to the flatter look.
F. Export your look to an sd card (1gb or smaller)
G. Load to your camera.
Now Your on set monitoring look should be closer to RC2/Redlogfilm (flatter looking)
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #5
Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
Thanks for the info guys.
Now I guess my other question is, how do I edit the Raw file? When I try importing it into After Effects for example, its much more saturation and higher contrast than what the in camera Raw video looks like.
When I import into RedCine X, the same thing happens when viewing with Rec709, if I change viewer to RedGamma, it seems to change it to view the Raw image.
Does that make sense? I'm a bit confused with the Raw vs. Rec709 thing.
Thanks,
Daniel
Now I guess my other question is, how do I edit the Raw file? When I try importing it into After Effects for example, its much more saturation and higher contrast than what the in camera Raw video looks like.
When I import into RedCine X, the same thing happens when viewing with Rec709, if I change viewer to RedGamma, it seems to change it to view the Raw image.
Does that make sense? I'm a bit confused with the Raw vs. Rec709 thing.
Thanks,
Daniel
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
Recommend REDColor2 / REDGamma2 for a basic video style grading starting point. Recommend REDColor2/REDLogFilm for a basic film style grading point, or to linearize for VFX work.
Graeme
Graeme
- Thread starter
- #7
Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
Thanks Graeme, but I still don't understand how that works... I still don't understand how to edit the Raw file because it's imported clearly not in Raw.
Thanks,
Daniel
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
Daniel, I'm not completely sure what you mean. The underlying data in the R3D is raw, but to display a raw image, some processing is needed or else you'd be seeing a very dark black and white mosaic image, for that is what the raw data looks like in it's rawest form. If you wish a flat image to grade from, which is what I thought you were getting at in the original post, the settings I mention above will work very well for you.
All the gamma and colour space settings are the raw development settings that allow you to view the raw data in a variety of ways depending upon application.
Graeme
All the gamma and colour space settings are the raw development settings that allow you to view the raw data in a variety of ways depending upon application.
Graeme
Daniel S,
Are you using Adobe CS5 After Effects? What is your objective? to grade footage that you have shot? Are you working from R3D files or Quicktime Proxies?
The best way I can explain how the raw works is this: Raw sensor data (like what graeme described) has to go through a transform or series of transforms in order to be viewed in a manner in which we are used to looking at it. The way that Red preserves Raw data is more akin to working with a series of raw still files from a Still Camera than a baked video stream from a Video Camera (like a Sony).
This is the magic part of Red, and what lets us have more flexibility.
So, imagine that the raw data is like White light entering a prism, which then shapes it into our desired look. We can change how the prism works with the raw light in order to suit our taste.
So, depending on if your software suite is set up to view R3D files (and with what color science aka 'prism') you will be able to start with a look that you want, or shape it into your desired form. I'd be happy to talk with you off list about methodology,and what it all means both artistically, technically, and philosophically.
Ultimately - while it seems complex at first, you will see that the Red Workflow actually gives you the most control and flexibility over the images you create of any readily available Digital Cinematography System.
I know 4K workflow is the hot buzz these days, but if you are looking to deliver something in 1920x1080, I would recommend going into RedCine-X, doing a best-light color correction that suits your eye, then transcoding to something you or your editor can easily cut with. If you or your editor feels like doing an advanced final color session, they can relink the original R3D files which preserve all your raw data, and then do a more advanced grade based on the look you saved as metadata.
While it may seem like there are a lot of steps - one advantage of retaining your 4K or larger original files is that you can go back to them to "re-master" at a higher quality than a quick delivery - so for instance:
You have a short film you shot that is going to festivals. The first festival you get into wants a standard def DVD.
Okay, you can deliver that.
Then you get accepted to Cannes and they want a 1080p Blu-Ray or an HD-CAM SR layback.
Done.
Then you want to enter a 4K festival - boom - you remaster and deliver.
Are you using Adobe CS5 After Effects? What is your objective? to grade footage that you have shot? Are you working from R3D files or Quicktime Proxies?
The best way I can explain how the raw works is this: Raw sensor data (like what graeme described) has to go through a transform or series of transforms in order to be viewed in a manner in which we are used to looking at it. The way that Red preserves Raw data is more akin to working with a series of raw still files from a Still Camera than a baked video stream from a Video Camera (like a Sony).
This is the magic part of Red, and what lets us have more flexibility.
So, imagine that the raw data is like White light entering a prism, which then shapes it into our desired look. We can change how the prism works with the raw light in order to suit our taste.
So, depending on if your software suite is set up to view R3D files (and with what color science aka 'prism') you will be able to start with a look that you want, or shape it into your desired form. I'd be happy to talk with you off list about methodology,and what it all means both artistically, technically, and philosophically.
Ultimately - while it seems complex at first, you will see that the Red Workflow actually gives you the most control and flexibility over the images you create of any readily available Digital Cinematography System.
I know 4K workflow is the hot buzz these days, but if you are looking to deliver something in 1920x1080, I would recommend going into RedCine-X, doing a best-light color correction that suits your eye, then transcoding to something you or your editor can easily cut with. If you or your editor feels like doing an advanced final color session, they can relink the original R3D files which preserve all your raw data, and then do a more advanced grade based on the look you saved as metadata.
While it may seem like there are a lot of steps - one advantage of retaining your 4K or larger original files is that you can go back to them to "re-master" at a higher quality than a quick delivery - so for instance:
You have a short film you shot that is going to festivals. The first festival you get into wants a standard def DVD.
Okay, you can deliver that.
Then you get accepted to Cannes and they want a 1080p Blu-Ray or an HD-CAM SR layback.
Done.
Then you want to enter a 4K festival - boom - you remaster and deliver.
- Thread starter
- #10
Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
Graeme and Dan,
Thanks for the info.
I guess what I'm trying to get in post, is the Raw viewing that you see in the camera (how you can switch back and forth from Raw view to Rec709 view).
I now see that switching to REDColor2/REDLogFilm in Redcine X seems to show me the Raw view, but how do I keep it that flat raw look?
Dan,
I am going to be using the R3D files and try to keep it 4k all the way through using After Effects CS5 to edit everything.
Thanks,
Daniel
Thanks for the info.
I guess what I'm trying to get in post, is the Raw viewing that you see in the camera (how you can switch back and forth from Raw view to Rec709 view).
I now see that switching to REDColor2/REDLogFilm in Redcine X seems to show me the Raw view, but how do I keep it that flat raw look?
Dan,
I am going to be using the R3D files and try to keep it 4k all the way through using After Effects CS5 to edit everything.
Thanks,
Daniel
What build are you using on the camera?
use 30.xx for optimal results.
Rec 709 is in an old firmware build. I'd recommend going to the latest firmware (or applying the new color science in redcine X, or CS5)
use 30.xx for optimal results.
Rec 709 is in an old firmware build. I'd recommend going to the latest firmware (or applying the new color science in redcine X, or CS5)
- Thread starter
- #12
Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
It was an old build like 17 which I will be updating.
So how do you export a file from Redcine X (sorry this is such a simple question).
Still unsure about this:
I guess what I'm trying to get in post, is the Raw viewing that you see in the camera (how you can switch back and forth from Raw view to Rec709 view).
I now see that switching to REDColor2/REDLogFilm in Redcine X seems to show me the Raw view, but how do I keep it that flat raw look?
Thanks,
Daniel
So how do you export a file from Redcine X (sorry this is such a simple question).
Still unsure about this:
I guess what I'm trying to get in post, is the Raw viewing that you see in the camera (how you can switch back and forth from Raw view to Rec709 view).
I now see that switching to REDColor2/REDLogFilm in Redcine X seems to show me the Raw view, but how do I keep it that flat raw look?
Thanks,
Daniel
There may or may not be an RCX tutorial on YouTube...
But, say you have a whole "mag" or roll worth of footage that you want to go rc2/rLF on:
Make a bin, rename it your roll number.
Drag your clips from your folder to the bin.
Make a preset that applies rc2/rLF.
Find the drop down for apply to bin.
Apply your look.
Now, on the left there is an export arrow. Open it.
The export window let's you create a new export preset by using the + button. Edit your export settings for that export preset. (prores? Dnx? DPx sequence)
Once you create your export preset you can use the drop down for export bin (all)
It will ask you where you want to export to.
There you go.
Are you the guy doing your own feature? Let's talk off the forum:
Info at dankanes dot com
But, say you have a whole "mag" or roll worth of footage that you want to go rc2/rLF on:
Make a bin, rename it your roll number.
Drag your clips from your folder to the bin.
Make a preset that applies rc2/rLF.
Find the drop down for apply to bin.
Apply your look.
Now, on the left there is an export arrow. Open it.
The export window let's you create a new export preset by using the + button. Edit your export settings for that export preset. (prores? Dnx? DPx sequence)
Once you create your export preset you can use the drop down for export bin (all)
It will ask you where you want to export to.
There you go.
Are you the guy doing your own feature? Let's talk off the forum:
Info at dankanes dot com
- Thread starter
- #14
Daniel Soderberg
Well-known member
New question: why when I import a R3D clip into Redcine X, and then choose redcolor2 and redlogFilm, right away the blacks are pretty damn noisy without doing any CC yet...?
Uli Plank
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Well, Daniel, we are going in circles now.
If you want a flat look for your finished movie, care for flat lighting in the first place, as Stephen wrote!
If you look at very flat versions of footage which had contrasty lighting, you are pulling up noise that is normally hidden in the blacks. It's always there, any electronic sensor – however good it may be – will inevitably have some visible noise deep down in the blacks. But with usual processing it will be crushed into black.
You are trying to do unusual processing for the final look, it seems. That won't work without leaving some noise. If you can't re-shoot with flatter lighting (which I'm afraid is the case), you can only try a good denoiser like Neatvideo to get rid of it.
If you want a flat look for your finished movie, care for flat lighting in the first place, as Stephen wrote!
If you look at very flat versions of footage which had contrasty lighting, you are pulling up noise that is normally hidden in the blacks. It's always there, any electronic sensor – however good it may be – will inevitably have some visible noise deep down in the blacks. But with usual processing it will be crushed into black.
You are trying to do unusual processing for the final look, it seems. That won't work without leaving some noise. If you can't re-shoot with flatter lighting (which I'm afraid is the case), you can only try a good denoiser like Neatvideo to get rid of it.
Adam Eden
Well-known member
Hey graham I would love to have redcolor2 native on the camera instead of what ever it is now! I am just uploaded 30.7 to my red and I was hoping it was there.
In very low light the VCLR is very saturated and the curve is nothing like redcolor2/redgamma2 so there is a constant "GUESS" at what is correct when exposing between RAW and VCLR at 800 ISO.
In very low light the VCLR is very saturated and the curve is nothing like redcolor2/redgamma2 so there is a constant "GUESS" at what is correct when exposing between RAW and VCLR at 800 ISO.
This is sort of a side note, but when you upgrade, be sure to use the maintenance/restore menu to restore your look setting and everything else to factory defaults, then setup your key presets, etc.
Reboot the camera, then black shade it.
After that you can custom Adjust your viewing LUT either in camera or in RCX like I described in my first post. Apologies to anyone who already knows this or has their own set of best practices. I'm just Sharing some of my methodology.
Reboot the camera, then black shade it.
After that you can custom Adjust your viewing LUT either in camera or in RCX like I described in my first post. Apologies to anyone who already knows this or has their own set of best practices. I'm just Sharing some of my methodology.