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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

“Set Up”- Bruce Willis, Ryan Philippe and Curtis “50 Cent” Jackson.

Christian Munoz D said:
Unfortunately I can’t afford to give this type of answer to my clients. Thank you for your input anyway.
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Getting snarky with Jim for a legitimate answer? Yikes!

Why do you have to explain to your clients that you don't like a film you had nothing to do with?
 
Jake Bastian said:
Getting snarky with Jim for a legitimate answer? Yikes!

Why do you have to explain to your clients that you don't like a film you had nothing to do with?
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Jake, a client I was trying to "sell" my services using my Red mentioned this movie as the reason he want to go in a different direction. So, I watched the film with a few colleagues and well....I needed to try to get an answer....

BTW: I am not getting sharky, as you said, with Jim. I think the last part of his answer is just rude...perhaps a language barrier, who knows.
 
Hey guys thank you for your answers and thank you to the ones that contributed to this thread.
I really appreciate the fanboys (Red or any camera brand) and newcomers to keep your comments for yourself if they are not informative for this thread and the Forum.
Time to move on…
 
Its easy to grade only if you don't want a high contrast image. Its a fact that the MX sensor can't handle highlights too well. Why is that so difficult to muster? Get on with it, maybe Dragon will fix this. Who knows? I surely hope so. Alexa has already fixed this, so this is something Red will have to fix as well. And Christian is right to point it out, and just look at any Steven Soderbergh film, to see how the Red's highlights break down so easily.

If Christian wants this kind of look for his next job, then he will either have to live with clipped highlights and shadows, or he can go for an Alexa or a C300.
 
Christian Munoz D said:
Jake, a client I was trying to "sell" my services using my Red mentioned this movie as the reason he want to go in a different direction. So, I watched the film with a few colleagues and well....I needed to try to get an answer....

BTW: I am not getting sharky, as you said, with Jim. I think the last part of his answer is just rude...perhaps a language barrier, who knows.
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A client is the customer and they are always right no matter how wrong they are.

I think the best answer for your client is to show them your work.. If they like your work, then they should hire you.. They shouldn't hire you because of what you use.. If they base who they hire on bad movies graded poorly I think your fighting a loosing battle..

I've seen bad footage shot with just about every camera out there.. I've also seen great amazing footage with almost every camera out there.

If you give an artist a pencil you might get a masterpiece, give a 3 year old that same pencil and you will get scribble..

It's the person using it, and know how to use it to its best abilities not the pencil..
 
The Red One did not come with HDR capacity. Epic does. You can get MUCH closer to the look you want in the can on EPIC.
If you do that much right, people are less likely to try to push a look in post and crush it.

I saw how roached that "Book of Eli" was. It was obviously a creative choice that works for the Post-Apoc genre, and it worked.
People still complained that it wasn't a "good reprentation of RED footage." Actually it was for that genre. The same look would ruin most films.

Haven't seen this one though. I would like to see how Epic or Scarlet does in a dark, "noir" detective sort of gig.
 
Zé Caralho said:
Its easy to grade only if you don't want a high contrast image. Its a fact that the MX sensor can't handle highlights too well. Why is that so difficult to muster? Get on with it, maybe Dragon will fix this. Who knows? I surely hope so. Alexa has already fixed this, so this is something Red will have to fix as well. And Christian is right to point it out, and just look at any Steven Soderbergh film, to see how the Red's highlights break down so easily.

If Christian wants this kind of look for his next job, then he will either have to live with clipped highlights and shadows, or he can go for an Alexa or a C300.
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I don't know what you're on about - you're saying you can't grade MX is you want a high contrast (as in low dynamic range) image? That doesn't make sense. As for highlight handling - most of what you're seeing on the Alexa is it' s in-built low contrast filtration, which is an easy thing to add to any other camera if you like the look of it. If you're judging cameras based on finished graded movies made with them, then you're judging cameras wrong. I've seen some utterly terrible clipped highlights on an Alexa shot TV show, but does that mean the Alexa is a crap camera? No it does not, it just means that that was the look they were going for, or it was used incorrectly - it's not indicative of the cameras native quality which we know is great.

Graeme
 
Justin Marx said:
I've seen bad footage shot with just about every camera out there.. I've also seen great amazing footage with almost every camera out there.

If you give an artist a pencil you might get a masterpiece, give a 3 year old that same pencil and you will get scribble..

It's the person using it, and know how to use it to its best abilities not the pencil..
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Great advice there Justin.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
I don't know what you're on about - you're saying you can't grade MX is you want a high contrast (as in low dynamic range) image? That doesn't make sense. As for highlight handling - most of what you're seeing on the Alexa is it' s in-built low contrast filtration, which is an easy thing to add to any other camera if you like the look of it. If you're judging cameras based on finished graded movies made with them, then you're judging cameras wrong. I've seen some utterly terrible clipped highlights on an Alexa shot TV show, but does that mean the Alexa is a crap camera? No it does not, it just means that that was the look they were going for, or it was used incorrectly - it's not indicative of the cameras native quality which we know is great.

Graeme
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Graeme, what I'm simply saying is that if you want to crush (not clip) the shadows and highlights, your tonal region is extremely small on the MX, it will clip as soon as you push the numbers up and down to achieve that contrasty look, the MX will clip rather than maintain a tonal gradation to pure white or pure black. this is not a grading issue, it's something quite representative of Red's highlights.

On the other hand, the only way to keep highlights 'healthy' is too shoot David Fincher 's style, meaning, to make the base exposure one or two stops down the metered exposure, so there is plenty of dynamic range on the sensor at this point to have highlight rolloff without clipping. But that is not a good way to work, as either The Social Network and The Girl... are extremely dark films. Its suits David's style, but it's not how a camera should look, dark, in order to keep good looking highlights.

When I mean clipping, I mean clipping where it shouldn't clip... when there seems to be a one or two stops missing from the highlight end of the scale of the MX's DR. The clipping I've seen from the Alexa is far too many stops above its native DR. But with the MX, clipping will occur much earlier in the scale. Therefore, making it tricky to grade anything contrasty. And no, contrasty doesn't necessarily mean lower DR, it just means smaller tonal transition. And it will look more 'filmic' if that gradation, is intact all the way through.

Unfortunately, this is something that really bugs me. I love the MX look, but if there was something that I could wish from a future sensor would be better highlight/shadow handling and perhaps more acute color rendition.
 
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Paul Ellington said:
Visit my M page post #47 .... Not even a close contest.
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Sorry, but those are circled lines... what does that have to do with any real world scenario? And I don't even know which is which, and I don't really care. tests like these are as profound as an old rag.

I like both Red (MX) and Alexa footage, but ever since I saw 'In Time' and 'Anonymous' I much prefer the Alexa. And having had shot with both, and loving both, I still prefer the Alexa.

But why do you have to say things like 'Strike down the opposition'? What opposition? Why would you want to strike? Calm down man, these are only cameras, and to each his own!

Don't you appreciate the fact that you are a free and happy user of democracy? Why would it have to be any different with cameras? And why should I have to justify my preference to you, without you having to feel the urge to show me two circled lines test to say I'm wrong? What's the matter with you? Wouldn't this be a much better place if there was peace and respect amongst different choices?

Move on.
 
Zé Caralho said:
Sorry, but those are circled lines... what does that have to do with any real world scenario? And I don't even know which is which, and I don't really care. tests like these are as profound as an old rag.

I like both Red (MX) and Alexa footage, but ever since I saw 'In Time' and 'Anonymous' I much prefer the Alexa. And having had shot with both, and loving both, I still prefer the Alexa.

But why do you have to say things like 'Strike down the opposition'? What opposition? Why would you want to strike? Calm down man, these are only cameras, and to each his own!

Don't you appreciate the fact that you are a free and happy user of democracy? Why would it have to be any different with cameras? And why should I have to justify my preference to you, without you having to feel the urge to show me two circled lines test to say I'm wrong? What's the matter with you? Wouldn't this be a much better place if there was peace and respect amongst different choices?

Move on.
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1: Please don't put words in my mouth ...
2: it was self explanatory the Alexa lines, which are blurry, was mentioned dirt and thus are first.
3: I think choice is great but you're new around here and anyone who tries to hurt our community should be asked why they are so interested in Alexa on RedUser...
4: Alexa in my opinion is overcharging for an inferior product.

So those are my two cents. It's a good camera, not for me, too expensive and doesn't handle as well as the Epic -- at all.
 
Zé, ok I understand what you're saying now, just don't agree with it.

Graeme
 
Paul Ellington said:
1: Please don't put words in my mouth ...
2: it was self explanatory the Alexa lines, which are blurry, was mentioned dirt and thus are first.
3: I think choice is great but you're new around here and anyone who tries to hurt our community should be asked why they are so interested in Alexa on RedUser...
4: Alexa in my opinion is overcharging for an inferior product.

So those are my two cents. It's a good camera, not for me, too expensive and doesn't handle as well as the Epic -- at all.
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There you are again. Why would I have to be here to 'hurt your community'? Is this a cult or a camera forum? You are scaring me....

Although I prefer the Alexa, I nonetheless am interested in other cameras, such as Canon and Sony and of course, Red. Is that ok with you? I promise I won't use CAPS LOCK to hurt you...

I think Red is a wonderful camera, and an incredible piece of modern technology. There are wonderful, talented people out there doing incredible looking images with it. But it does have a couple of issues that I want to understand better. Hence my reply to this thread, because highlight handling is one of them. (And people with your attitude is another...)

Can I please go now?
 
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