Sequence Aspect Ratio for 2.39:1 4K Deliverable?

[Ravi Kiran]

I'm setting up a project we shot on Red Helium in Adobe Premiere. Aspect ratio is 2.39:1, original footage is 8192 x 4320. I want the editor to edit on a 4K timeline, and we plan on submitting to festivals so I'd like to get a proper DCP at the end of it. Would editing on a 4096 x 1716 timeline be okay, or should they edit on a 3996 x 2160 timeline with black bars cropping to 2.39:1?

 

[Leonardo Newman]

I edit on 4096x1716 all the time. If your deliverable is 2:39:1 then you should edit with that aspect ratio.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Mr. Newman,
Another question, what would the DCI container for a 4/3 frame (or QuadHD) be?
4096x2160 with pillar boxes?
What I understand is that there are only 3 DCI formats. Scope, Flat and Full, and all non standard formats should be put in a C (Full) container.

 

[Phil Holland]

Mr. Newman,
Another question, what would the DCI container for a 4/3 frame (or QuadHD) be?
4096x2160 with pillar boxes?
What I understand is that there are only 3 DCI formats. Scope, Flat and Full, and all non standard formats should be put in a C (Full) container.

It's like you guys don't know why I made phfx | tools.

https://phfx.com/tools/ratioToRes/rtr.cgi?ar=1.9:1&cr=&ep=

 

[Patrick Tresch]

It's like you guys don't know why I made phfx | tools.

https://phfx.com/tools/ratioToRes/rtr.cgi?ar=1.9:1&cr=&ep=

Well Phil, you just got my mind smoke... ;-)
I don't understand why you call a 1.8967 format : DCI. There is no 2.7 DCI format even if the aspect ration could be 1.8967. DCI for me is a standard, and there are 3 formats Full (C) 1:1.8967, Flat (F) 1:1.85, Scope (S) 1:2.39. And all other formats (4/3, 16/9, 1:1.66, ... ) are variations.

When you do a 4/3 4k DCP in what container do you usually export your picture C, F or S?

Thanks Phil.
Patrick

 

[Phil Holland]

Well Phil, you just got my mind smoke... ;-)

I have the odd pleasure (or pain) to be in the film industry prior to the formation and during the formation of the Digital Cinema Initiative. Their legwork more or less has set the course for digital cinema exhibition standards in the 2000s onward.

DCI Full, being the maximum format, often and and still is universally references as DCI. Abridged, most go with 1.9:1 which has even been featured in cameras. If you are looking for the precise number it's 1.8963:1.

In modern times, and likely to avoid any conflict with DCI in general that has been short handed to 17:9 (though that comes out to 1.8889:1). I think the global acceptance of 16:9 or *gasp* 16x9 has also influenced this heavily.

You are correct in stating that there are mainly three DCI formats of Full (1.9:1), Flat (1.85:1), and Scope (2.39:1). In the film projection world as you mention things like 1.66:1 exist, I remember working ont he first 2 X-Men features and that being a major consideration for the global market. And wildly, many other aspect ratios exist.

In the digital age it's become common wrap things in "containers" to fit various standards. In a pure digital file playback, it's fine to output your dimensions as most players will fit the width or height when viewed in fullscreen. However, if delivering to the main two "worlds" of DCI and 16:9 you would wrap them in container that fits within either:
- DCI Full 4K - 4096x2160
- DCI Full 2K - 2048x1080
- UHD 4K - 3840x2160
- FHD 2K - 2048x1080

And you would have your black letterboxing or pillars in the space not occupied by your footage. Streaming services either require this or a master at the ideal delivery resolution.

Take note that in the above data that the vertical resolution is the same in both "world", meaning if you have a format that fits within both you only need one master.

This is the case for your 4:3 format. To keep things simple, here are your delivery resolutions for 4:3:
https://phfx.com/tools/ratioToRes/rtr.cgi?ar=&cr=4:3&ep=

The rather cool thing regarding my ratioToRes tool has been the semi-forward thinking of maintaining the delivery standards of cinema exhibition and television technology. With the additional validation that the 8K, 12K, and 16K standards now exist. It's almost like I knew all along.

And yes, though there is "no such thing" as DCI 8K and similar, since we are mainly aspect ratio bound I've kept it this way. And also to note these are the general standards applied to digital cinema cameras that capture beyond 8K as well.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I'm setting up a project we shot on Red Helium in Adobe Premiere. Aspect ratio is 2.39:1, original footage is 8192 x 4320. I want the editor to edit on a 4K timeline, and we plan on submitting to festivals so I'd like to get a proper DCP at the end of it. Would editing on a 4096 x 1716 timeline be okay, or should they edit on a 3996 x 2160 timeline with black bars cropping to 2.39:1?

Realistically, the only DCP aspect ratios are these:



and nobody does full container. Even 16x9 is unusual. It's basically scope or 1.85, and if you do anything else (like 1.33 or 2.00), it has to fit inside one of the other aspect ratios. I have seen 1.33 films released as DCPs with sidebox/pillarbox borders on the sides in a 1.85 frame.

BTW, I hope you shot the 8192x4320 with 2.39 extraction in mind, so you can give the post crew the ability to reframe if necessary. If you didn't, then it'll have to be scaled.

 

[Phil Holland]

and nobody does full container.

In the most recent years, Marvel and various for IMAX features have been delivering full container. But it's done fairly regularly, though certainly not the majority of production work.