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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Selling a $220 that you refuse to fix/refurbish is bunk.

Ben Sliker

Ben Sliker

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*Unhappy Customer Complaint*

Cables are a high-margin item. I understand. (Retail stores sell $4 HDMI cables for $80 to the public.) But I think it's poor design and in poor taste to sell a 7" cable for $220 (that is essential to the function of the camera) and not have a way to fix or refurbish it. My bomb squad rep says that 'almost all fix orders for cables turn into replacement orders.'

This is way outside the lines of being reasonable. Especially since no 3rd party option or competition exists. I HAVE to buy this cable from RED, or a I have a 15k paperweight of a camera. For someone who saved pennies for a LONG time to invest in RED, $220 replacement cables (make that $440, don't want to be left screwed in the future without a backup) is a kick in the nuts.
 
many people might see this as "why are you complaining" you should be happy red makes affordable cameras. i am rich by no means. when i got a small crack in my 5.6 inch lcd some years back. red told me it would cost $1,230 to replace a cracked screen on a lcd thats $1,500 brand new. til this day i have yet to fix it or buy a new one. for guys like us that dont have that kinda cash sitting around i hurts but still in all im thankful to red because without them most of us would still be using a hvx-200
 
Ibrahim ... your reply doesn't address the situation. You assume that because I am complaining about a cable that I am not happy RED makes affordable cinema cameras. I love my scarlet. So, just because RED offers an incredible camera at an incredible price, I should be happy about having to replace (without exception or option) an overpriced cable every time it breaks?

Why am I complaining? SIMPLE - RED has made no effort to sustain my business. The answer I got from my bomb squad rep was 'Sorry, buy another one' No matter how small, I am repeat business. I should be kept happy. And a cable is not an item that usually gets re-bought. This is EXTRA business. I'd be wholly satisfied with 'send back your cable, we'll knock $100 off a new one.' I'd be completely flabbergasted if there isn't still a significant margin at $120.
 
Lets take the RED EVF/ LCD cable for example...that Lemo connector is 100$ per connector if you buy it yourself, so right there your at 200$ already, and that's IF you can find the connector in stock somewhere. Not to mention that you'd have to wire a 16 pin cable. It's not like your just stripping & crimping to pop on a BNC connector. There's a little know how behind dealing with those types of cables. If you take the cost of the connector(s) into consideration and the quality of the cable...I think RED has pretty decently priced cables.

QUOTE=Ben Sliker;1038797]*Unhappy Customer Complaint*

Cables are a high-margin item. I understand. (Retail stores sell $4 HDMI cables for $80 to the public.) But I think it's poor design and in poor taste to sell a 7" cable for $220 (that is essential to the function of the camera) and not have a way to fix or refurbish it. My bomb squad rep says that 'almost all fix orders for cables turn into replacement orders.'

This is way outside the lines of being reasonable. Especially since no 3rd party option or competition exists. I HAVE to buy this cable from RED, or a I have a 15k paperweight of a camera. For someone who saved pennies for a LONG time to invest in RED, $220 replacement cables (make that $440, don't want to be left screwed in the future without a backup) is a kick in the nuts.[/QUOTE]
 
Reds prices are very fair for cables. Out of dozens of camera cables (EVF, LCD, Drives, Power) I had one failure since red came out. That's a whole lot of TV, movies and TV commercials. That includes lots of travel. And docs in the middle east, Africa, and Europe. If you take care of your cables, they will take care of you. You can't manhandle a lemo with 20 pins on it.

Nick
 
This is why you buy spares, I'm sorry but if you wanna play the RED game. It's gonna cost you... My 8th month old Touch LCD just failed so I overnighted it to RED with the cable when it failed. Who knows, odds are I'm gonna need to toss that cable and replace that with the monitor. It's a little cost to a big investment, so you gotta take the bad with the good.
 
Ben,
The issue is that $220 cable would cost more to repair than it would be to replace. This is why Red rarely repairs them. The Lemo's are expensive and there are many tiny solders to make.
$220 is actually a fair price for the limited quantity produced and the amount of labor involved.
Also, its fairly standard practice to own a minimum of two cables on any professional camera. Arri, Canon, Sony...it make no difference. You should have two of every cable.
 
well, thanks guys for the lectures, but my concern hasn't really been dealt with. (We take VERY good care of our equipment, sometimes having 2 of everything is a luxury you can't afford, and 'playing the RED game' doesn't mean you have to spend all your money on spares) We bought this camera to shoot our own feature film on. We don't make money off of it other than the occasional unadvertised rental, which just so happens when it was broken.

My concern is customer service. Retaining customers, big and small. If the parts costs so much, I'll send mine back for a discount. If they don't, try to keep me happy as a customer. "Sorry, buy another one at full price" isn't the best way to keep customers. I tried to spend $1600 at the RED store two weeks ago, but needed products overnighted. "Sorry, I can't help you" is the response I get. Now I can only assume that this is the same response I will always get. Which means I'll avoid the store as much as I can.






PS - $220 will never, ever be a 'fair-price' for a 7" cable. Don't even try to convince me. Margins on accessories are high. This is A. an opportunity for RED to make money and B. keep customers happy due to this margin.
 
I agree with you cables aren't cheap but at the same time...those connectors on the evf/ lcd cable cost 100$ per connector. That price is a fact. If you buy them in bulk (at least 50+) you get a slight discount, which I'm sure RED does but they're still not cheap 5$ XLR connectors. Of course RED wants to make money, they're a business but they're also providing a service with these cables that is more cost effective than if you buy the parts and make them yourself. I know how to make cables and if I bought all the materials needed to make just a few (less than 50) of those cables than I'd spend over 220$ per cable in the cost of materials. I'm sure every one who owns a camera on this forum wishes these cables were cheaper but many people on the forum are aware of the costs of the materials with these cables or they've learned to solder so they can make/ repair their own cables.

Soldering irons are relatively cheap and they'll save you some $ in the long run.
 
Ben Sliker said:
$220 will never, ever be a 'fair-price' for a 7" cable.
Click to expand...
I understand that you are disgruntled but if the parts needed for a certain item themselves cost $220, I don't see how such a specialized cable can be called a high margin item.
Yes, I understand that "a cable" for $220 may seem a lot of money, just as "a camera" for $30k may seem high. But they aren't.
 
I think you should move your rant to Timmy Rubenstieners FB page. You guys would get along.
 
Ben, I think everyone has given a fair response. I've written in the past about how to prepare for purchasing a RED. You have to figure in the repair/replacement costs. Doesn't matter if you think price is fair or not. If you buy an expensive car but can't put "overpriced" gas in it, then it might be best to not buy an expensive car.

I understand in this economy, things are tough. But you have to be realistic when purchasing gear. No matter how well you take care of it, stuff breaks. Always assume it will and know the replacement costs. Also, know your insurance policy details.

And for the record, I'm not rich and these costs hurt me as well when they come up. But i except it as cost of doing business.
 
Good feedback. Here is my problem from the manufacturer's point of view.

I needed to make some custom cables for the Epic. Cost me tens of thousands of dollars in research that took 4 months to find the right cable and connectors from a pool of about 110,000 different connectors. Then, it cost $5,000 to manufacture a batch of 10 cables. The manufacturer took 3 months to make them.

I may be able to sell five or six of them, if I'm lucky.

How much should I be selling them for to customers?

Picture attached. Suggestions welcome.

Oh, and if the customer breaks one, how do I fix it? It has 60 cores soldered and epoxi-ed to the edge connectors on a space smaller than a finger nail.
 

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I was flabbergasted to have to pay $240 for an extra cable (18") because my included cable was a measly 7" and didn't handle all my needs. Such is life. They cost what they cost. I wish they were cheaper; they're not. As far as offering a discount to keep you happy, I want a free upgrade to an Epic to make me happy. :-)
 
Martin,

This is exactly what I mean. If the parts are indeed so expensive, why weren't these cables built to be repaired? Why can't I send mine back for some kind of discount? If the only answers that I get from my bomb squad rep are 'I can't help you' and 'Sorry, just buy a brand new one', why do I need a bomb squad rep? Will the answers ever be different?

The fact that it's a $220 cable, makes it a NOT-disposable item. It should be built to be repaired. Not thrown away.

-ben

Martin Weiss said:
I understand that you are disgruntled but if the parts needed for a certain item themselves cost $220, I don't see how such a specialized cable can be called a high margin item.
Yes, I understand that "a cable" for $220 may seem a lot of money, just as "a camera" for $30k may seem high. But they aren't.
Click to expand...
 
Ben Sliker said:
Martin,

This is exactly what I mean. If the parts are indeed so expensive, why weren't these cables built to be repaired? Why can't I send mine back for some kind of discount? If the only answers that I get from my bomb squad rep are 'I can't help you' and 'Sorry, just buy a brand new one', why do I need a bomb squad rep? Will the answers ever be different?

The fact that it's a $220 cable, makes it a NOT-disposable item. It should be built to be repaired. Not thrown away.

-ben
Click to expand...

Some cables are not so simple to fix. Especially ones like the LCD/EVF cable. The break itself might be simple, but even if it's just one pin it means spending time to remove all the pins and recrimp all of them so the internal wires are the same length. You actually spend more time and money salvaging a broken LCD cable than you do making a brand new one, especially at the price Red is offering them.

what should and shoudln't be disposable is purely subjective, not a fact.
 
regardless, it doesn't look like anyone is going to sympathize with my point of view. The complaint department is pretty rough around here. I feel like I've made some valid points that don't have to do with the cost of the cable, and in the future, will know that the most likely answer will be to just buy a new one.

now to get that $220 out of my renter for breaking the cable...
 
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