Second Day Goodies

[laguun]

... if macs are all the go, and wih redcode raw suppot in FCP - what about "color" for a low budget finish?

in terms of workflow though - will post people (like me) be able to get our hands on redcine/ redalert as productions start gearing up using red cameras?

I am not sure if its the best idea to embed a 4k camera in a 2k post environment - even if a mayor percentage of the projects will be finished on 1080p, 2k or pal/ntsc.

The low price of the apple solution is really tempting, however, there are several solid 4k solutions available.

Some examples, even when going to master 2k from the 4k source.
- pan & scan. if your system is limited to 2k, you will loose resolution.
- noise reduction. oversampling the noise from 4k down to 2k is a great way to enhance snr without sacrificing resolution. Not doable on 2k systems.
- complex vfx pipelines. by scaling/layering/tracking etc, a good part of the resolution is lost. 4k is a blessing then.

Therefore i am pretty reluctant to go with fcs as main system here, even if i would love to and already own a license. There are, as of yet, i expect apple to improve that, simply several showstoppers for me. No 10/12bit rgb, no 4k, color had _massive_ issues, seems to become better now, propietary offline codec... hmmm.

If they would have 4k@12bit or float RGB i would buy another seat in the blink on an eye.

It will be a really interesting IBC. It seems that several nle/finishing/D.I. manufacturers are pretty keen on directly supporting red.

 

[Brook Willard]

There's plenty of detail in the shirt... none of it is overexposed. The same with the specularity on Steve's forehead in the earlier shot. We're still shooting over here... there'll be more time for the post end afterwards.

I haven't read the thread yet, I just caught a few quick points.

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I knew it! Thanks Brook.

 

[Roberto B]

That Tshirt is really scaring me.

are you talking about the blue?.. ehehehehe i don't see any problem.. do you?.. :shifty:

edit
he doesn't byte.. :innocent: ehehehe

 

[Álex Montoya]

Hey, Brook. When do you think we could expect more footage? It's 4am here and I was thinking about getting some sleep...

 

[Brook Willard]

See? Detail!

Any suggestions on processing, Graeme/Rob/etc.?

We're still shooting here... this is the first time I've sat down at the laptop all day. You may consider sleep... I'd hate to keep you up.

 

[laguun]

Hey, Brook. When do you think we could expect more footage? It's 4am here and I was thinking about getting some sleep...

yes! give us europeans something to dream of!

 

[Álex Montoya]

Now THAT'S much better

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

Amazing!

 

[Brook Willard]

Remember, many of these screenshots and frame grabs are not even remotely color corrected. We shot them, loaded them and took a screen shot. All it takes is 10 seconds to get a good looking image... and 30 to get a better one.

 

[David Battistella]

... if macs are all the go, and wih redcode raw suppot in FCP - what about "color" for a low budget finish?

in terms of workflow though - will post people (like me) be able to get our hands on redcine/ redalert as productions start gearing up using red cameras?

Color is limited to 2K at this moment. Not sure if that will change in the upcoming releases though.

David

 

[jbeale]

There's plenty of detail in the shirt... none of it is overexposed. The same with the specularity on Steve's forehead in the earlier shot. [...]

Interesting- given that's the case, I can see how there's a learning curve associated with the Red Alert app. To me, the screen shot makes the white t-shirt appear to be more than a full stop past clipping. Does the camera tell you where the "real" clipping points are while shooting? I don't know if zebras are on the enabled featureset yet, but if you set the zebras to 100% does that include the headroom that can apparently later be recovered in post?

 

[Stu Maschwitz]

Any suggestions on processing, Graeme/Rob/etc.?

This is probably for Graeme to answer—but Brook, you seem to be processing to Linear Light, which might explain why the image is so dark. If you want it that dark then that's your choice of course, but the natural rendering of the camera would be better displayed on a normal monitor with some kind of gamma lookup. Unless the linear light mode uses some kind of display correction?

-Stu

 

[Graeme Nattress]

See? Detail!

Any suggestions on processing, Graeme/Rob/etc.?

We're still shooting here... this is the first time I've sat down at the laptop all day. You may consider sleep... I'd hate to keep you up.

Ah, I knew it was there!

Hard to advise long distance without that R3D file for me to play with, but you're heading in the right direction!

I don't know why you're grading in linear light though? Why are you not using the log or REC709 curve? I don't know why it looks so bright in the linear light mode - it should be as dark as hell.....

Graeme

 

[Roberto B]

excellent Mr. Nattress.. thx for your job..

 

[Brook Willard]

We're in linear because it looks better on our little screen. We're heading out for magic hour right now, but I'll try it in another mode once we get back.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Interesting- given that's the case, I can see how there's a learning curve associated with the Red Alert app. To me, the screen shot makes the white t-shirt appear to be more than a full stop past clipping. Does the camera tell you where the "real" clipping points are while shooting? I don't know if zebras are on the enabled featureset yet, but if you set the zebras to 100% does that include the headroom that can apparently later be recovered in post?

The code in camera is very similar to the code in REDAlert, and yes, there's always a bit of headroom you don't see in camera. If you don't quite nail it in camera, that bit of headroom could be life-saving.

Graeme

 

[Graeme Nattress]

This is probably for Graeme to answer—but Brook, you seem to be processing to Linear Light, which might explain why the image is so dark. If you want it that dark then that's your choice of course, but the natural rendering of the camera would be better displayed on a normal monitor with some kind of gamma lookup. Unless the linear light mode uses some kind of display correction?

-Stu

Stu - you spotted that the same as me! Yes, I think they should have it set to the REC709 gamma curve for display and grading. Linear Light mode does not use any display correction - it's totally wysiwyg in all modes.

Graeme

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I'd recommend using REC709 for "normal" use - that's the app default. If you're going out to DPX and want the maximum precision in the data, use REDLog. If you're going out 16 bit tiff, or doing some kind of diagnostics on the image that a tonal curve would interfere with, Linear Light is useful.

Graeme

 

[Graeme Nattress]

excellent Mr. Nattress.. thx for your job..

Thanks. It's been one hell of a learning curve. RAW conversion is not something you can find in the textbooks - it's a mix of color science and secret sauce that we've had to learn as we go along, adding a few tricks of our own in the process..... It's been interesting to say the least.

Graeme