Schedule Update?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

So what would you guys say is a fair price for a reconditioned RED ONE? Remember that it has to be competitive with the new RED offerings?

considering that a red one is a brain including base I/O Module, CF Module, and a user Interface (comparable to RED MOde)...and can shoot SLOW MOTION at 3k....

with M Sensor 5000 USD
with MX Sensor 8000 USD

at this price point i guess a lot of fixed scarlet user would think about getting a M Sensor R1 (lets say they get one battery and bplate and the redplate for free too) and the Scarlet S35 guys would think about a MX R1....both would save on the modules.

this is just what i would think...but who i am?

edit: i think it doesnt make sense to sell M sensor refurbished R1s, guess when MX is all around, nobody would go back to M)

 

[NEIL ANDREW BATES]

It's an interesting question. I think it also depends on the accessories. Whilst most R1 parts are compatable with the new epic/scarlet system, the reverse may not be true given that the scarlet shoulder rig, batteries, storage, etc do not appear to be compatable with the R1 body so you need to use the existing R1 accessories. (might be wrong of course). That effectively means a double dip when the 2/3" or S35 brains appear as it's not just a case of swapping the brain to get a new camera so that may affect the value in the eyes of some.

On the other hand, The R1 remains a 4K RAW shooting camera with a full frame sensor that can be upgraded to the same specs as the new scarlets. Given that it still shoots at 4 X the resolution most cinemas can project at and 16 X the rez of HD home cinema, it's still going be a camera worth paying above the cost of your average HD prosumer camera.

Of course, RED may yet blow them all up as part of a giant publicity stunt for the launch of Epic.

 

[Raul Gonzo]

heehee, guess i'm not the only one wondering what RED intends to do with those returned R1's then ey?

That,s not what I meant actually.
I meant that for those who don't own a R1 and are worried that the current R1 owners will create a long line for the first Scarlets released- it won't be so bad.
Many will trade in for the Epic X and then we will no longer have that spot in line.
Although, there will be a huge demand for them from everyone anyway-
hopefully there will be plenty to go around.

As for the refurbished value of the R1 with an M or MX sensor, we know that it has to be more than $9k since that is what Red is letting people keep theirs for in the Stage 2 trade in.

 

[David Rasberry]

I would expect a refurbed R1 body with M-X upgrade and a full 90 day warranty on the whole camera to go for about the price of the original M new. I think you are dreaming if you expect factory refurbed R1's to go for less than 10k-12k minimum if they are sold at all.
It is still a real bargain.

 

[Jon Carr]

I think it would be more between 10,000-15,000 USD for a recondition RED one. The RED one is still a proven camera and that's its life has doubled with the MX sensor. 4K is 4K bottom line.

 

[Julio Quintana]

A 4K camera capable of clean ISO2000 and overcranking at 3K for $8000? I don't think so. But who knows?

 

[NEIL ANDREW BATES]

Many will trade in for the Epic X and then we will no longer have that spot in line.

Has that been verified Raul? I thought that trading in the red1 for epic would not affect an R1 owners priority to own a Scarlet first

 

[rod bradley]

I believe the queues are for the Epic -- and are in order of camera delivery dates (not serial numbers)-- in four stages, very specifically delineated. I haven't noticed any such outline for the Scarlet -- so far, it seems it will be more or less he who pays first gets served first.

I may be mistaken -- but if so, please point us all to the announcement from Red that says what the Scarlet queue is. And we should always remember the mantra: SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

 

[Raul Gonzo]

Hey Neil- here is JJ's post from 2008:
(original thread - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=318907&postcount=5)

A RED ONE owner has several choices.

1. A RED ONE owner can keep the RED ONE and upgrade to the Mysterium-X sensor for a TBD price... just as we promised.

2. A RED ONE owner can purchase any EPIC and trade in their RED ONE for full $17,500 value towards the purchase... just as we promised.

3. A RED ONE owner can choose to keep their RED ONE and receive a one-time credit of 12% on a Scarlet system purchase.

Once any of the above has been chosen, the serial number will be marked as "Executed". It can not be used again for #2 or #3. It can, however, always be eligible for another sensor upgrade as we release new sensor technology in the future.

A RED ONE owner also has priority on purchasing a Scarlet or EPIC. Beyond the new Mysterium-X sensor option we will continue to offer firmware upgrades, service and parts for the RED ONE. It has become the legacy of RED. We will never forget the camera and those that believed in RED with their purchase of the now famous, RED ONE.

Everything is subject to change-
but I haven,t heard differently since then...

 

[Chris Luker]

But the main reason is, in my experience it only takes one little thing to go wrong and your shoot is off for the day/night. I won't be working with pro's, my actors and crew will probably be working other jobs or have other commitments and be limited to a few hours per shoot. I just can't afford to lose that daily rental fee should it rain or someone's child is sick or a police helicopter is continually circling around etc etc. Actually owning the camera allows time to train with it and guarantees it will be there when we shoot, even if it's organised at the last minute. My project is a self-backed personnal ambition, I'm not doing it for commercial reasons, with things like this the best camera you can possibly afford tends to take up the bulk of your budget

Exactly my case as well!
I have a semi-pro cast/crew of friends/family and a great script that I wrote last year. I think it deserves a better camera.
I want to own the camera I shoot with. Be intimately familiar with it. Know what I can and can't do with it. This takes time with the camera. I'd use all of my budget just renting the camera enough time to get to know how to use it how I want to be able to use it.
I can wait for Scarlet... just not too long.?.?.? please.

 

[NEIL ANDREW BATES]

Thanks Raul. I remember it now

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

A 4K camera capable of clean ISO2000 and overcranking at 3K for $8000? I don't think so. But who knows?

a 5k camera with clean iso 2000 at 7000 usd sounds good too...scarlet s35

you shouldnt forget that scarlet s35 will have some advantages too.

its grounded (i hope)
the i/O module will have fuses (i hope)
power consumption is lowered
boot up time 2 sec.
hotswap batteries integrated in batterymodule
remote control through redmote
HDR Mode !
if one of the modules dies you still can shoot, with the r1 its different, the whole body goes in for repair.
lightweight
5k

these are some serious advantages over the R1, and its 7000 USD

so i am not sure if a MXed refurbished R1 can be that much more expensive then a MXed Scarlet S35.

 

[Liam Hall]

Exactly my case as well!
I have a semi-pro cast/crew of friends/family and a great script that I wrote last year. I think it deserves a better camera.
I want to own the camera I shoot with. Be intimately familiar with it. Know what I can and can't do with it. This takes time with the camera. I'd use all of my budget just renting the camera enough time to get to know how to use it how I want to be able to use it.
I can wait for Scarlet... just not too long.?.?.? please.

My advice: shoot it with the best equipment you can get your hands on now. Ring Kodak, beg some stock - they like helping struggling filmmakers - borrow a camera, lights, everything, but make your film.

Enroll in a film course, do everything you can to get it made - just don't sit on your hands.

It's never been easier or cheaper to get a film made. Never. I don't understand people who say they have to wait for this or they have to wait for that - it just sounds like excuses to me.

 

[Nigel Wallace]

I don't understand people who say they have to wait for this or they have to wait for that - it just sounds like excuses to me.

I have many stylized shots that involve ramping or high speed shots as well as I'd like a higher dynamic range. Do I have to wait for that stuff? No, I could make it right now on an EX-1 no problem, but i'd be sacrificing a certain look and style i want for it just to shoot it sooner. I'm not going to lie, if it comes out later than the last projected release (may-june) then I've got some issues. May scrap it until it does release or try to shoot portions with a red one if I can find one to rent for mega cheap.

or a 5d.

just kidding.

 

[Ethan Lane]

or a 5d.

just kidding.

I know you were joking but why not? It's full frame and good with low light. I know it's nothing compared to RED but you could certainly get some of your film shot. Just save the scenes you really want a RED for until the end of summer and sell the 5D if you need the cash.

 

[Chris Luker]

My advice: shoot it with the best equipment you can get your hands on now. Ring Kodak, beg some stock - they like helping struggling filmmakers - borrow a camera, lights, everything, but make your film.

Enroll in a film course, do everything you can to get it made - just don't sit on your hands.

It's never been easier or cheaper to get a film made. Never. I don't understand people who say they have to wait for this or they have to wait for that - it just sounds like excuses to me.

I make films every week at work (I'm the audio guy though, not Director/DP). We've got an older camera there, and, I just sold my Z1u. I have all the lights I would need. And, of course, all the high end audio gear needed.
I could do it now, but I want to wait for the Scarlet. I think it will look better, and get me the experience I want on the RED workflow.
Plus, I'm a GearSlut.:drool5:

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I make films every week at work (I'm the audio guy though, not Director/DP). We've got an older camera there, and, I just sold my Z1u. I have all the lights I would need. And, of course, all the high end audio gear needed.
I could do it now, but I want to wait for the Scarlet. I think it will look better, and get me the experience I want on the RED workflow.
Plus, I'm a GearSlut.:drool5:

gearslut is a top nickname haha

 

[David Rasberry]

a 5k camera with clean iso 2000 at 7000 usd sounds good too...scarlet s35

you shouldnt forget that scarlet s35 will have some advantages too.

its grounded (i hope)
the i/O module will have fuses (i hope)
power consumption is lowered
boot up time 2 sec.
hotswap batteries integrated in batterymodule
remote control through redmote
HDR Mode !
if one of the modules dies you still can shoot, with the r1 its different, the whole body goes in for repair.
lightweight
5k

these are some serious advantages over the R1, and its 7000 USD

so i am not sure if a MXed refurbished R1 can be that much more expensive then a MXed Scarlet S35.

Add the controls and I/O modules needed to match what an R1 has built in and you are at more like 10K. Plus R1 will record higher frame rates than the Scarlet S35 if that is important to you.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Add the controls and I/O modules needed to match what an R1 has built in and you are at more like 10K. Plus R1 will record higher frame rates than the Scarlet S35 if that is important to you.

if i want slo mo i will use a epic, 4k or 5k at 100 fps...i wouldnt want to compromise in quality when shooting in slo mo when i dont have to.

and i use maybe 3-5% of the shooting time with Slo Mo.

so from my perspective the whole epic/scarlet is much superior to R1.

but to put it in relation...we are talking here about AAA and AAA+ Cameras.

Good for all of us!

 

[Liam Hall]

I have many stylized shots that involve ramping or high speed shots as well as I'd like a higher dynamic range. Do I have to wait for that stuff? No, I could make it right now on an EX-1 no problem, but i'd be sacrificing a certain look and style i want for it just to shoot it sooner. I'm not going to lie, if it comes out later than the last projected release (may-june) then I've got some issues. May scrap it until it does release or try to shoot portions with a red one if I can find one to rent for mega cheap.

or a 5d.

just kidding.

It's not coming out May or June. You can shoot 120fps on RED1, if you need faster there's Phantom. Be realistic and get shooting.