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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Schedule Update?

Philip Lipetz said:
Me too. My backer is getting tired of me delaying filming until we get a Scarlet. I can understand if the masses have to wait until the end of the year to get their Scarlets, however I wish that ReD understood more clearly that all of this uncertainty makes it impossible to present a professional image.
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This is not Reds fault. You shouldn't be planning a "professional production" around a camera that doesn't yet have a release date.
 
I agree that a typical professional should not wait for unreleased cams to do a shoot, but Scarlet is also attracting a new class of clients, organizations that sponsor films but also have a secondary goal of accumulating equipment for future projects. If RED Scarlet, or the competition's response to RED, are low cost game changers then can you advise them to buy what you believe will soon be suboptimal solutions?

The sponsors are putting me in the position of being both a filmmaker and a tech advisor, and those two roles do not always agree. My tech crystal ball is no better than anyone else's. I would MUCH prefer to be shooting.

As for renting, this film is a low budget doc that involves many interviews in many continents over extended periods of time, that makes rental cost much more than acquiring a Scarlet kit. The sponsors would rather acquire equipment and put the saved money into better CGI, sound track and other post production optimizations. They are are also concerned that if they are committing to a RED RAW future that their library should optimally match up with future shoots.

As for buying an already shipping cam and reselling it after the shoot, the sponsors are afraid that tech advances will produce a sharp drop off in resale value. My bad for talking of how new sensors will lead to new solutions. I over sold RED, which I have never used, so that seems to be where they see their future.

I am also very aware that what Cüneyt Kaya says is very true - shoot when you can because the opportunity may pass. Decisions have to be made at the end of March and I pray that things will be clearer then.
 
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Philip Lipetz said:
As for buying an already shipping cam and reselling it after the shoot,
the sponsors are afraid that tech advances will produce a sharp drop off in resale value.
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Resale value of anything always has a drop off...furniture is at least 50%...
there are a couple well known camera options out there at
various price points under $20k and under $10k
They are going to spend alot more money in travel expenses than in
any camera expenses..if worried about resale..just buy a used camera...

Honestly if these clients are so concerned about losing resale
value..really in the wrong industry..how are they going to
afford travel costs for going around the world ?

Are they aware that vast majority of independent productions
don't make money. Something doesn't add up here...
these people may just be taking you for a ride because they like talking about filming.
The proof is when they write checks..sounds like they have not done so ....
 
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Steve Das said:
Resale value of anything always has a drop off...furniture is at least 50%...
Honestly if these clients are so concerned about losing resale
value..really in the wrong industry..how are they going to
afford travel costs for going around the world ?
....
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They have written checks, sent me to India and around America, just that they are a religious organization so different rules. Bottom line is this some cam must be purchased soon - need to shoot this and move on. However they are entranced by the RED dream I sold them and that has frozen too many people. I guess that I drank the KoolAid.

The point I was trying to make was that a disruptive revolutionary technology is by its very nature disruptive. The real question, in addition to when will it ship, is how long will we mere mortals have to wait to get a Scarlet after it starts shipping to R1 owners?
 
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The real question, in addition to when will it ship, is how long will we mere mortals have to wait to get a Scarlet after it starts shipping to R1 owners?
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That's probably the biggest question of all for me, and I doubt I'm alone here. I don't own a R1. With Scarlet's arrival an unknown, I am saving for the R1 but it's going to take a while. And even if Scarlet turns up whilst I'm saving, and I have enough to buy Scarlet outright there and then, am I better off continuing saving for the R1 and gaining some sort of priority or better off waiting in line after the R1 owners have had their opportunity and hoping there's enough scarlet's for everyone soon after?

Having been mostly a regular lurker on these forums since 2007, I'm starting to invest in the opinions of those who have been here a much longer time, and they're saying scarlet's for everyone by summer just isn't going to be feasible.
 
Scarlet 2/3" hopefully will be here by summer's end. I doubt we will see Scarlet S35 until the demand for Epic-X is satisfied. The real question is how the new ASIC and the Tattoo Beta cameras test out and how long a time frame it takes to debug the new hardware and software. I think Red can and will ramp up production pretty quickly once they are satisfied there will be minimal problems with the production models. 6 to 8 months minimum still seems realistic to me at this stage, maybe a little longer. JJ mentioned they were only going to build 20 Tattoo versions for the beta test stage, but no one has said how far along they are in this process. They said about three months for the new ASIC spin and that was November, so hopefully Red will have them in hand very shortly if they don't already.
 
I certainly don't doubt RED's intensity and passion to get these new cameras out there. It'll be US all stampeding for one at the same time that will probably have the biggest bearing on delivery dates hahaha :D
 
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why buy the camera?
you are making a film. for 4000 dollars you get some pretty good deals with 7000 reds floating around.

sorry this argument doesnt count,
if you have 4000 in your camera budget, get the best rental deal for that money.

guess the total budget is higher (sound make up costumes post etc.)
 
Cuneyt

Im too far away, literally hundreds of miles from most rental houses to make renting a feasible option, and I'm betting those RED's are in pretty high demand already.

But the main reason is, in my experience it only takes one little thing to go wrong and your shoot is off for the day/night. I won't be working with pro's, my actors and crew will probably be working other jobs or have other commitments and be limited to a few hours per shoot. I just can't afford to lose that daily rental fee should it rain or someone's child is sick or a police helicopter is continually circling around etc etc. Actually owning the camera allows time to train with it and guarantees it will be there when we shoot, even if it's organised at the last minute. My project is a self-backed personnal ambition, I'm not doing it for commercial reasons, with things like this the best camera you can possibly afford tends to take up the bulk of your budget

(Besides which i already bought most of the costumes when I last tried to shoot it with an canon XL1.......which broke)
 
NEIL ANDREW BATES said:
Cuneyt

Im too far away, literally hundreds of miles from most rental houses to make renting a feasible option, and I'm betting those RED's are in pretty high demand already.

But the main reason is, in my experience it only takes one little thing to go wrong and your shoot is off for the day/night. I won't be working with pro's, my actors and crew will probably be working other jobs or have other commitments and be limited to a few hours per shoot. I just can't afford to lose that daily rental fee should it rain or someone's child is sick or a police helicopter is continually circling around etc etc. Actually owning the camera allows time to train with it and guarantees it will be there when we shoot, even if it's organised at the last minute. My project is a self-backed personnal ambition, I'm not doing it for commercial reasons, with things like this the best camera you can possibly afford tends to take up the bulk of your budget

(Besides which i already bought most of the costumes when I last tried to shoot it with an canon XL1.......which broke)
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Hear! Hear! There is new class of serious filmmaker, people like this that were previously ignored but will form the BULK of the Scarlet users. Not all of us live near rental houses. I read posts about $150/day RED rentals in LA but where I live they try to get $750/day. The best I have been able to neogotiate was $4000/two weeks IF no one else wanted the cam at the last moment, and then the owner withdrew the offer. And then I would be working with an unfamiliar instrument. So, at max two or three weeks rental or just purchase a Scarlet and practice, practice with it.
 
Philip Lipetz said:
Me too. My backer is getting tired of me delaying filming until we get a Scarlet. I can understand if the masses have to wait until the end of the year to get their Scarlets, however I wish that ReD understood more clearly that all of this uncertainty makes it impossible to present a professional image.
Click to expand...

You are the masses.
 
NEIL ANDREW BATES said:
Cuneyt

Im too far away, literally hundreds of miles from most rental houses to make renting a feasible option, and I'm betting those RED's are in pretty high demand already.

But the main reason is, in my experience it only takes one little thing to go wrong and your shoot is off for the day/night. I won't be working with pro's, my actors and crew will probably be working other jobs or have other commitments and be limited to a few hours per shoot. I just can't afford to lose that daily rental fee should it rain or someone's child is sick or a police helicopter is continually circling around etc etc. Actually owning the camera allows time to train with it and guarantees it will be there when we shoot, even if it's organised at the last minute. My project is a self-backed personnal ambition, I'm not doing it for commercial reasons, with things like this the best camera you can possibly afford tends to take up the bulk of your budget

(Besides which i already bought most of the costumes when I last tried to shoot it with an canon XL1.......which broke)
Click to expand...

ok then wait
 
Liam Hall said:
You are the masses.
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Too true! I will wait with the masses until the masses get delivery. At some point RED will realize that with Scarlet they have dipped into the prosumer/lower end serious pro market, and that that market behaves differently, and have different expectations, than the Hollywood pros who are smart enough to flock to RED.
 
I can't say the wait won't be frustrating, and I'll go with whichever comes first, enough for an R1 or Scarlet, but like RED themselves, I don't want to put out an inferior project, by rushing it
 
Don,t forget:

A lot of R1 owners will be trading in for an Epic.

Afterwards, we all go to the back of the line.
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heehee, guess i'm not the only one wondering what RED intends to do with those returned R1's then ey? :)
 
The summer feels far away with a good bit over a meter snow on the roof. I have to climb up tomorow and get the most down before its gets warmer! Hope we here the tattoo program kicks off soon or if the ASIC working properly.
 
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