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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Schedule update?

My understanding is that the RED ONE uses an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) to do its number crunching whilst the Scarlet/Epic will use ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuit)

My understanding is that it's faster to develop for FPGAs (Field Programmable Gate Array) and that FPGAs can be completely re-configured "in the field" (i.e. using firmware updates). But FPGAs don't offer quite as much "horsepower" as ASICs. ASICs are more cost-effective for products which will ship in large quantities.

ASICs take a long time to develop and once the ASIC is built, it cannot be completely re-engineered in the field (unlike an FPGA).

Have a look at the introductory paragraph to WikiPedia's entry on ASICs for a brief comparison of ASICs vs. FPGAs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asic

So, in answer to the question "what does all this chat about ASICs and FPGAs have to do with RED's production schedule?"...

RED were able to get the first RED ONE cameras out the door with feature-incomplete FPGAs because they knew they would be able to reprogramme the FPGA in the field to fix any problems which arose. However, this "get the cameras out quick and fix problems in the field" approach isn't possible with ASICs (which will form the heart of the Scarlet/Epic brains). RED have to be certain that the ASICs are finished and perfected before the first cameras can be released.
 
Jack Kelly said:
My understanding is that the RED ONE uses an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) to do its number crunching whilst the Scarlet/Epic will use ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuit)

My understanding is that it's faster to develop for FPGAs (Field Programmable Gate Array) and that FPGAs can be completely re-configured "in the field" (i.e. using firmware updates). But FPGAs don't offer quite as much "horsepower" as ASICs. ASICs are more cost-effective for products which will ship in large quantities.

ASICs take a long time to develop and once the ASIC is built, it cannot be completely re-engineered in the field (unlike an FPGA).

Have a look at the introductory paragraph to WikiPedia's entry on ASICs for a brief comparison of ASICs vs. FPGAs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asic

So, in answer to the question "what does all this chat about ASICs and FPGAs have to do with RED's production schedule?"...

RED were able to get the first RED ONE cameras out the door with feature-incomplete FPGAs because they knew they would be able to reprogramme the FPGA in the field to fix any problems which arose. However, this "get the cameras out quick and fix problems in the field" approach isn't possible with ASICs (which will form the heart of the Scarlet/Epic brains). RED have to be certain that the ASICs are finished and perfected before the first cameras can be released.
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That is exactly right. And, the reason the ASIC is the biggest variable Jim can't predict is if there is one mistake that makes it not work, it takes a month or so to make the change and test a new ASIC.
 
Many thanks guys and to Jack for a good brief explanation, thats answered many questions.
 
Think of an FPGA as a digital bread board you can build any circuit design on with software. Great for experimentation and development, but more expensive, slower, and more power hungry than an ASIC.
The ASIC is the more efficient printed circuit mass produced version of a (hopefully) fully debugged and tested design.
 
I tell you what I would love to come to Red and test out the ASIC Scarlet to assist with the process. I have a short film in mind and everything. Also I can think of a few senarios to test the durability of the camera and its accessories.
 
humm ASIC seems limiting to the user if it can't be updated easily, I have to believe the Red guys are going to make updating firmware common practice with this camera.
 
It's not the end of the world. Since the ASIC is so much faster (and I mean a LOT faster per $) you can include some more general purpose processing on the board. It isn't a 100% hardware solution but it's also not a 100% programmable solution like an FPGA. Think of it like the iPhone. They can't make significant changes but they will still probably have an ARM processor which can run the operating system and update-able firmware.

The stuff which won't be able to change is a lot of the really low level, high performance hardware to handle REDCode, debayering and such.
 
Yuval Shrem said:
First of all, I was referring to the products RED has already delivered. I cannot comment on the delivery schedule of products that have not yet been delivered to market, and were not even supposed to be delivered to market quite yet.

Furthermore, I'm quite surprised with your statement about Scarlet targeting for event videographers, especially on a thread referring to the Scarlet FF35, which is an extreme overkill for event videography. Canon's target audience certainly is consisted of many event videographers, but I expect the Scarlet line to be the choice of many independent filmmakers, DPs who want to own their own equipment, and production companies producing both low-budget feature films, television programing, music videos and commercials, while the Epic line will probably cater more for rental houses and the bigger production houses. If you're talking about the 2/3 inch built-in lens version of Scarlet that might make more sense, but even then, it seems to me that the RED workflow is more suited to film and television production (including news gathering with the smaller Scarlets) and less for the long format event videography that can easily make do with existing HDV cameras.
I have a lot more faith in the Scarlet FF35 than considering it to be an event videographer's choice.
Is it just me?
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Agreed. Mine is a small production company and I do music videos, corporate work, and personal projects like short films, with an eye towards features in the future. That's why I want the Scarlet. The RED One was going to be my camera but it turned out that it was best to wait as I see the Scarlet as a superior camera for a lower price.
 
David Rasberry said:
Think of an FPGA as a digital bread board you can build any circuit design on with software. Great for experimentation and development, but more expensive, slower, and more power hungry than an ASIC.
The ASIC is the more efficient printed circuit mass produced version of a (hopefully) fully debugged and tested design.
Click to expand...
Here's an idea (probably stupid) why not retrofit the RED ONEs with S35 sensor .... then have thousands of beta testers to try things out ... when the design is near perfect on the FPGA then make the ASIC ...
 
Peter Hodgins said:
Here's an idea (probably stupid) why not retrofit the RED ONEs with S35 sensor .... then have thousands of beta testers to try things out ... when the design is near perfect on the FPGA then make the ASIC ...
Click to expand...

That is essentially what they have been doing with RED one since it was released. It is the development platform. Everything they have learned from one will be carried forward into the new models. They haven't said if they will retrofit the new S35 sensor or not.
 
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