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Scarlet-X Vs. Red One MX

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Maximilian Lewin

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Hey, so my question is regarding prices here. I'm a new Red owner, though I've been using Red for years, and as far as I can see the Scarlet-X seems to be somewhat of a replacement of the Red One MX, same sensor, smaller- there of course are pros and cons of each (4k vs 4.5k), but after looking at the specs it seems the pros of the Scarlet-X out-weigh the cons-
I'm wondering when, or if, Red will drop the price on the Red One or drop it completely?
25k vs 14k... Hmm
Thoughts?
 
For me it's the size and weight.
R1 is big and heavy, Scarlet/Epic is small and lighter.
No question at the current prices, the R1 is a bit overpriced compared to Scarlet (but not to the rest of the camera world - by far!).
That being said, If I had to choose between a used R1 for $10k and a new Scarlet package for $14k. I'd go with Scarlet.
Now a used R1 for $7k? I'd buy that instead.
 
Chris, I don't think you're too far off. I think very soon we'll be seeing used R1 packages all over for under 12K.
You know what kind of sucks, I just bought my first Red One MX three weeks ago (need basis). I was so sure Scarlet-X was going to be 2/3, or $20K. It's ok- I spent less than the Scarlet-X package and the MX is already paying itself off :)
It just makes me love Red even more.
 
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yes the Red MX seems to have been literally killed off over night by the Scarlet. Scarlet-x has higher data rates, higher dynamic range, future hdrx @ 24fps functionality via free firmware upgrade, better signal to noise ratio presumably that means better ISO/low light performance, and obviously better form factor / functionality as it has the body of the epic. The ONLY thing Red MX has over it is 4.5k versus 4k resolution which is pretty much insignificant and unnoticeable to anyone even trained eyes, and 120fps @2k whereas scarlet has 120fps @1k only.

I definitely can see Red MX packages dropping over night to ungodly levels. They ALREADY are. As we speak there's several 17 - 18k$ full Red MX packages on sale here and I doubt anyone will sell them...some even say OBO that means probably willing to accept much lower, and that's for a FULL PACKAGE with 30-35k$ worth of stuff. The R1 MX body alone probably just depreciated to about 10k or less overnight. It's crazy.
 
The image quality of the RED MX didn't drop over night. Look at all of the Feature films that were shot on MX recently. It's still an amazing camera. Sure, some folks will dump theirs, but I wouidn't. I'd just buy a Scarlet or Epic to pair it up with :)
 
Daniel, you're right the image quality between Red MX and Scarlet will be 100% unnoticeable/interchangeable I believe. But the thread starter is talking about prices not quality here
 
It's not just an issue of camera specs and price though. The Cine world has had years to develop setups and support, both from Red and third parties, for the MX. While for the Epic ad Scarlet people are still tring to figure out what the ideal set up will be.
 
Chris Luker said:
That being said, If I had to choose between a used R1 for $10k and a new Scarlet package for $14k. I'd go with Scarlet.
Now a used R1 for $7k? I'd buy that instead.
Click to expand...

The thing is, it's not going to be $14k for scarlet. One 64gb card isn't going to last very long, you need at least 2 so that you can at least dump one card while you shoot with the other, and those cards are expensive, especially for the 128s or 256s which are the nicer sizes. Then you're going to need a baseplate, top plate, handle, longer LCD cables, and the red one already has a lot of the functionality of the Pro I/O built in (especially for those who have the ET breakout box).

Anyone who sells their Red One (especially with any accessories) for less then 10k is crazy IMHO.

Colin Sheldon
finnerknowsbest.com
 
Folks are still wanting something for nothing and are glossing over the fact that the R1 STILL shoots 4K in higher frame rates than Scarlet, in both the original sensor and MX. This means it has value to current owners as a viable B camera. Sure, there might be some folks wanting to unload their camera before any perceived bottom falls out, but many are keeping their camera as a dependable backup. It is not worth it to me as an owner to give the equipment away at prices being bandied about on the web. Someone wanting an R1 for $7,000 is dreaming.
 
I hope you're right mark. There are already full 35,000$ R1 Mysterium packages on sale for 16k here on this site and full MX packages for 18k. Let's hope they don't depreciate and bottom out overnight even lower than that because even that is already appallingly low
 
Peter, you mean the kit that I have listed, right? Yes, it's at $16,500 and not going to drop because beyond that, it's worth more for me to keep it. Put another way, I could part the kit out and make more than what I'm offering it for at $16,500.

I used the R1 right alongside my new Epic last week on a shoot, they matched perfectly. It won't be an issue whatsoever for me to simply keep the camera if there are no takers. Folks need to realize how much the bits and pieces are going to add up once they get knee deep into equipment. The amount that will be spent will easily surpass that of the initial camera purchase.
 
Peter Dmitriyev said:
I hope you're right mark. There are already full 35,000$ R1 Mysterium packages on sale for 16k here on this site and full MX packages for 18k. Let's hope they don't depreciate and bottom out overnight even lower than that because even that is already appallingly low
Click to expand...

The cameras won't depreciate, Peter. I think 15K will be the bottom line of a red one MX package (ready to shoot). There will always be those that will sell for less- many red owners are owner/operators and in this scenario the possibility of big discounts and sales is very much possible and dependent of the owners own mentality and reasons- but any smart production house will fork out that money for a used Red One MX. If you see the speed the cameras are being grabbed in the marketplace, you'll notice people are actually taking advantage of the fear of depreciation of current red One owners. People seem to forget that both Epic and Scarlet prices will actually go up next year. 15K Red One MX packages are one heck of a deal. 20K should be the standard acceptable price for fully equipped Red One MX.
 
I know the RED ONE is bigger and heavier...BUT it feels right. When it's on your shoulders, it feels solid. I don't need to mess around with clunky rigs or counterbalance it with weights and break my back in the process.

The RED ONE has tons of value...if the SCARLET was technologically superior by leaps and bounds...which is not...then I could see the RED ONE going for almost nothing.

Let's remember that the RED ONE is solid and has had 3-4 years to work out the kinks. SCARLET will have to go through it's growing pains...and that to me can be quite scary on set.

I'm glad that there are options. My only hope is that the support and builds are not halted for the RED ONE
 
I too hope that the RED ONE path continues to grow. It's a solid, reliable camera now. Clients expect to see a camera with it's impressive footprint on set to justify the rate they are paying. (Try and convince them of that with a 5D like their kid has.)

Though there is a RED ONE / SCARLET parity right now and it appears that the venerable workhorse could be put out to pasture, I would expect that soon we will see a RED ONE upgrade path that will change all of that. There was a hint of that when Jim posted that we will be very happy that we kept our RED ONEs when executing EPIC Stage 2.

After all, remember the original RED philosophy "Obsolesence Obsolete".
 
Mike Weber said:
There was a hint of that when Jim posted that we will be very happy that we kept our RED ONEs when executing EPIC Stage 2.
Click to expand...

me thinks sensor upgrade program :)
 
taking into account what my Red One generated income over the past 3 years , i could even give it away for free and wouldn´t have lost a cent. But of course i won´t.
Lot of people who buy scarlet know will recognize that the stuff around the camera will cost almost the same or even more than the basic camera package itself.

I love my Red One, I love my Epic, and they´ll both work side by side at least another year, and a Scarlet might add up to them, but the value of the Red one didn´t drop as drastically as
some might think overnight.

...and finally, Jim sure has something up his sleeve for Camera owners who stick with there original camera;)
 
CocoBermudez said:
me thinks sensor upgrade program :)
Click to expand...
upgrade to what? It's already been stated that monstro/dragon sensors will NOT go into red one body. so what other possible sensor could it be upgraded to, the Red One already has the same sensor as the Epic (MX)
 
I hope there is. I'm holding on to my R1MX. Purchased it with the original M-Sensor a year ago. Upgraded and spec'ed it out fiinally right in time for this. Its a beautiful camera PKG I feel like I've come too far in our relationship and I don't want to give up on it now :)
 
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