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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet X NOW... or wait for dragon sensor?!

D

Damian Mizzi

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I was wondering if its best to order a Scarlet X anytime soon or perhaps wait until the new dragon sensor comes out. One of my concerns is that if I wait, the price of Scarlet X will most probably be less, than if I get it now and send it back after a couple of months for an upgrade.
 
While I was waiting for Scarlet I bought a 5D last summer to finish up a feature length doc project. Just finished that project, ready to start a new one (shot over 150 hours on 5D). Ordered Scarlet on Nov 3rd. Great thing is, all my Canon glass, support and grip will cross right over. Best thing to be is a moving train. Better yet, you know Red will fully support with firmware, etc. For the price, this camera is the best tool out there by at least 3 to 5 years. Just watch the latest Red reel at red.com or any recent film by Soderberg.
 
It's technology, there will always be the next best thing coming up. Like Jay said, if you have paying work now, then there is no reason to wait. Scarlet and Epic are already way ahead of the curve in terms of technology so you at least have a head start. I wouldn't bet on seeing Dragon for another year...
 
The dragon sensor I'm sure would make the step from EPIC to Dragon cheaper then Scarlet to Dragon since minor changes need to be made to the EPIC to upgrade whilst the Scarlet needs chips changed out and all apparently...

Unless the scarlet ends up on similar level with EPIC as it is now when Dragon comes out, so it'll always be one step lower...if thats the case youll still be looking at being charged more then the EPICs do for the upgrade anyhow,

Then again, no one knows a thing and more details will MAYBE be said in 2012 coming UP TO the second half or most certainly in the second half when its forecasted to launch...

Like most will say, depends, do you need to film things now? Or can you wait? Everything you buy now accessory wise will be the same as when the dragon comes out as would be the price of a Dragon Scarlet and an upgrade to Dragon from a Scarlet bought now (maybe cheaper slightly since the price rise happens in 2012)... You get the idea...sometimes you gotta make a call and take a risk, REDs taken out part of that risk by letting you upgrade without throwing away tons of accessories or selling them off...
 
Damian Mizzi said:
I was wondering if its best to order a Scarlet X anytime soon or perhaps wait until the new dragon sensor comes out. One of my concerns is that if I wait, the price of Scarlet X will most probably be less, than if I get it now and send it back after a couple of months for an upgrade.
Click to expand...
Why not get the Scarlet X, skip the Dragon upgrade and wait for the Hyena chip? In the meantime, you could shoot a couple of features.
 
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Just out of curiousity, can you still upgrade a RED One to an MX or was there a time limit? I am kinda scared I will not have the fundings right away for the Dragon.
 
If you wait for dragon the total cost (like buying an MX red today) will probably be higher than buying today and upgrading later. Just the scarlet + accessory package goes up by almost $4,000 on Jan 1. That's a huge discount on Dragon and you get to use the cam for 6 months. It makes no sense to wait in my opinion.
 
If Dragon follows the same path as the R1 upgrade to MX did, new Dragon Scarlets will go up in price like R1 did. Not likely to be cheaper.
 
Imran Farouk said:
Then again, no one knows a thing and more details will MAYBE be said in 2012 coming UP TO the second half or most certainly in the second half when its forecasted to launch...
Click to expand...

Imran,

I'm going out on a limb a little here, but I think it's safe to say that RED have taken on board the unwisdom of pumping people up too soon, and trailing tech long before it was ready for prime time... delayed and further delayed releases etc.

They announced Dragon at NAB earlier this year. No subtlety, everyone in Dragon shirts. It's not a cinematic revolution in itself, its 'just' a better sensor. Specs still unknown, but RED making a sensor upgrade available at some point is hardly huge unprecedented news.

I'd be surprised if they let NAB come around next year and it'll be 'Remember that Dragon thing you announced last year? Oh yeah, we're still working on that...'

Based on the above reasoning, I think we might just see Dragon a little sooner than some expect. Possibly availability announced *at* NAB next year.

Mike
 
I'm pretty sure Dragon is second half of 2012, not first.

Oh, yep, from Scarlet announcement thread in the faq.

"Q: When will the Dragon sensor upgrade be available?
A: 2nd half of 2012."
 
Was the R1 selling for less at the time the MX upgrade became available? I don't think it was. In fact until it was superceeded by Epic, the R1 more than held it's value, it increased. The point being that Red cameras thus far have held value very well and there is no historical precedent to back up your assumption.
 
Buying a camera as a financial investment is allways a bad idea. Real estate may work that way. And even though the R1 has been holding its value incredibly well, that has its particular reasons and is not least due to RED doing unheard of motions to make it stay that way, through teir "stages" program and the MX upgrade.

If you - OTOH - bu a camera to take images, it is hard to do a better choice than Epic or Scarlet-X

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59179-1st-24-hours-with-an-Epic/page26
 
AndrewThomas said:
I'm pretty sure Dragon is second half of 2012, not first.

Oh, yep, from Scarlet announcement thread in the faq.

"Q: When will the Dragon sensor upgrade be available?
A: 2nd half of 2012."
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the *Scarlet* upgrade; much bigger deal technically than the EPIC upgrade as has been discussed. Wouldn't entirely surprise me if we saw EPIC going on sale with Dragon installed at NAB; as I said they wouldn't trail it so heavily this year, only for next year to come around and 'we're still waiting...'

Mike
 
Indeed, electronics loose value faster than most anything else and Red has done some fairly extraordinary things to protect the value of R1 over the years. Some of those things aren't likely to be repeated. However, when Red laid out an upgrade program and designed a modular camera, they created a system that will probably hold value better than most other electronics we have seen. To stay on top of the curve will of course require additional investment, but the original X models should hold up fairly well until they are either replaced by a new model, or the cost of upgrades makes the option moot.

So long as Red manages the upgrades wisely, we should all do relatively well.
 
Mike, you are making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. Unless I missed it, Jim just said it will be more expensive because more of the boards need to be swapped. You may be right, but it is best to stick only to what is known, in situations like this.
 
Much like others have said if you can make money and afford the Scarlet X now you'll be getting a discount prior to 2012, which is already a deal.

However, if everybody keeps waiting for the future to get here, nothing would ever get done. :)

We don't know what the final price of the Dragon update and you'll be dealing with that and the lack of discount for not ordering today.
 
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