Scarlet X: Future improvements wish List :)

[Phil Holland]

If it got nothing else.....

24p @ 5k. Just wanna use that FOV to its fullest....

I have nothing to base this on, but I do believe this is possible once they start working on the higher FPS HDRx abilities via a firmware or perhaps slight hardware upgrade.

My ideal situation is 24p @ 5k and 48-60p at 4k basically. That should scale down to 2k at 100-120 fps. However, I am concerned that puts Red too close to Red One specs and perhaps too close to Epic specs.

I'm sold though. Scarlet X is the deal of the year when it comes to cameras.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Downsampling already happens... it's what drives the SDI and HDMI ports.

Sure, but not in the way that it would be a feasable alternative to raw. the redcode 444 1080 recordingoption once mentioned, is a bit off and haven't floated around for a while. And the SDI 1080 has its catches...

 

[Sergio Perez]

I have nothing to base this on, but I do believe this is possible once they start working on the higher FPS HDRx abilities via a firmware or perhaps slight hardware upgrade.

My ideal situation is 24p @ 5k and 48-60p at 4k basically. That should scale down to 2k at 100-120 fps. However, I am concerned that puts Red too close to Red One specs and perhaps too close to Epic specs.

I'm sold though. Scarlet X is the deal of the year when it comes to cameras.

I think that later down the road, at least in what 2k is concerned, we might be getting these frame rates. The Red one will no longer be manufactured, there will be a gap in product offerings in the Red lineup. Red One Specs are bellow Epic's, they are 2 different cameras at different price points . I would love to have 5k 24, but Jim stated no 4.5k in another thread so I think it will be unrealistic to expect faster 5K... So I continue with my wish of 3K 50fps and 2k 100fps

 

[Nick Wernham]

I would love to be able to use HDRx or go to 48fps in 4k. It is so beautiful and being able to do most of the shots that I'd ever want to do at 4k with a 1.3 crop factor instead of a 2.0 crop factor would be huge. I can understand how for certain peoples' styles a higher frame rate would be a tremendous tool, but half-speed is slow motion enough for my purposes, generally speaking.

In general, I'm more than satisfied with what has been promised for now to be honest. I don't love the fact that we move to a micro 4/3 crop factor in 3k, but with the Tokina 11-16mm lens I'll be able to cover most of the wider field of views that I normally would (S35 equivalent of 17mm is about as wide as I'd normally want to go so with some good planning the fact that I can only go to 22mm while shooting slow motion or using HDRx shouldn't be an issue the vast majority of the time). 2k for 60fps is pretty much a non-starter for me most of the time. The crop factor is just too big. I might do one shot like that every now and then on the Tokina with a standard lens equivalent, but generally speaking I love working with wide-angle lenses and can't see many situations where I'd want to go slower than half speed so I won't do it very often.

I would guess that we'll all have a better idea of what kind of changes we'd like to see in firmware updates and the like once we all get a chance to use the camera. Right now this is all speculation.

 

[Josef Gatti]

If I recall correctly, the Red One is "near" end of life. I think once the Scarlet X is available for the Dragon upgrade (ballpark 9k?), it will just about equal red one for price point and ultimately overtake it in regards to specs. Hopefully then, we will see 5k at 24/25 and some higher frame rates at 4k.

I'd love to see 48/50 frames on 4k before then via firmware update. My thoughts are that we'll have to wait til Dragon though. Can only push things so far!

 

[Christian Jadot]

In the current configuration, with out going to overboard

1.5K (1536x 864) @ 96 fps.

It is greater than 720p, but still gets the high frame rates with out to badly cannibalizing Reds own market while hurting the competition. And it is not asking anything to crazy. I think that would be the perfect resolution for web shooting. It gives you just enough resolution play, with the massive amouth of fps.



*On a side note, I am still not sure how resolution affects fps and the data rates. I thought 4K was 4 times the the data as 2K, so in theory could it not run 2K at 100 fps? 1K at 400 fps? Am I missing overhead? Can someone explain

 

[Sergio Perez]

In the current configuration, with out going to overboard

1.5K (1536x 864) @ 96 fps.

It is greater than 720p, but still gets the high frame rates with out to badly cannibalizing Reds own market while hurting the competition. And it is not asking anything to crazy. I think that would be the perfect resolution for web shooting. It gives you just enough resolution play, with the massive amouth of fps.

*On a side note, I am still not sure how resolution affects fps and the data rates. I thought 4K was 4 times the the data as 2K, so in theory could it not run 2K at 100 fps? 1K at 400 fps? Am I missing overhead? Can someone explain

Well, theoretically yes, but don't forget Red footage needs to go through debayering (I'm not the most technical person so please correct me if I'm wrong), which means your 1.5K is in reality a bit less than that. Red 2K is a bit bellow true 1080p resolution, from what I recall reading around here.(Again, please correct me if I'm wrong!) Notice, however, that most 1080p camcorders don't also resolve full 1080p resolution, either.

 

[Christian Jadot]

I am getting way outside my relm of knowledge. (Please correct me.) I thought you could have 2K if shot on 2K, but the color is estimated through computer algorithms. To get "true" color, the resolution is shrunk by 75%. Or am I completely off here?

 

[Sergio Perez]

I am getting way outside my relm of knowledge. (Please correct me.) I thought you could have 2K if shot on 2K, but the color is estimated through computer algorithms. To get "true" color, the resolution is shrunk by 75%. Or am I completely off here?

I would also like some help here. I know this information is on these boards. But I just can't seem to find it.

 

[Christian Jadot]

Here is another wish (It would better suit the Epic than the Scarlet though just due to horsepower):

2 different video streams at 2 different resolutions at 2 different frames per second.

So if I shoot 4K at 12 fps on video stream 1, and 1K at 60 fps video stream 2.

I know this would have limited use, but it would be cool for action scenes. It could give a '300' effect with a single camera. You could zoom in and out in post going from fast motion to slow motion. I don't see why this would not be possible, since we can already have 2 video streams for HDRx.

 

[Andrew Gentle]

I am getting way outside my relm of knowledge. (Please correct me.) I thought you could have 2K if shot on 2K, but the color is estimated through computer algorithms. To get "true" color, the resolution is shrunk by 75%. Or am I completely off here?

Yes, that's pretty much it. The RED One resolves about 3.2K when shooting in 4K mode, that's about 80% of the horizontal pixel dimension.

 

[Tommi Lähdesmäki]

4.9K / 4.8K @ 24 / 25fps

4.9K / 4.8K @ 24 / 25fps

How about something slightly smaller than 5K,

        a.ratio    W       H      depth  [COLOR=red]fps[/COLOR]   comp   bitrate        bits left    "cpu usage" compared to (4K 25fps = 100%)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR=lime]4.9K[/COLOR]    2,38886    4976    2083   12     [COLOR=lime]24[/COLOR]    7      426 446 043    13 553 957    99,971 %
[COLOR=cyan]4.8K[/COLOR]    2,39333    4880    2039   12     [COLOR=cyan]25[/COLOR]    7      426 442 286    13 557 714    99,970 %

5120 - 4976 = 144 = -72pix per side
5120 - 4880 = 240 = -120pix per side

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

I have nothing to base this on, but I do believe this is possible once they start working on the higher FPS HDRx abilities via a firmware or perhaps slight hardware upgrade.

My ideal situation is 24p @ 5k and 48-60p at 4k basically. That should scale down to 2k at 100-120 fps. However, I am concerned that puts Red too close to Red One specs and perhaps too close to Epic specs.

I'm sold though. Scarlet X is the deal of the year when it comes to cameras.

I totally agree on the sentiment of 24p@5k... I hope they figure this out because It means you can shoot the base of a film at 5k, and any other frame rates required you can drop as appropriate.
From the way Red talk, I'm not so sure that they're too concerned about the Scarlet being competition for the Epic. Theres no way it'll reach the frame rate/resolution combinations that Epic can...but what we do get is Reds 'enough' - That is to say, when Jim said 1080p isnt good enough, this is his offering of what is 'enough' - now if you have a project where you really want to go to town, move on up to epic (or else a brain for a day)

 

[Timur Civan]

I think, 5k may be out of reach.

That said, i'll be more than happy with 4k HDRX. been playing with HDRX for the first time. Holy crap its cool.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Here is another wish (It would better suit the Epic than the Scarlet though just due to horsepower):

2 different video streams at 2 different resolutions at 2 different frames per second.

So if I shoot 4K at 12 fps on video stream 1, and 1K at 60 fps video stream 2.

I know this would have limited use, but it would be cool for action scenes. It could give a '300' effect with a single camera. You could zoom in and out in post going from fast motion to slow motion. I don't see why this would not be possible, since we can already have 2 video streams for HDRx.

Not sure that really makes sense, this is generally achieved with one video stream shot at a high framerate. For example EPIC's 120fps 5k would allow you to ramp all you want in post with some interpolation or switch between 120fps 60fps and 24fps etc in post simply by combining or decimating frames.

Keep in mind that at the moment Scarlet only achieves higher framerates through windowing so your 1k 60fps stream would have to be a very small center cut crop compared to the 4k stream. You could just shoot in 3k/2k 48fps or 1k 120fps all the time if that is enough for you if you want additional framerate options in post.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

28K 2000FPS and free sensor upgrade...

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

28K 2000FPS and free sensor upgrade...

Why 28K when we all know the future standard will be 30K? That's just plain stupid

 

[Rodrigo Prata]

Being Realistic and accepting 4K is the maximum actual resolution the scarlet can handle at a 1:1.89 aspect ratio. That is 4096 x 2160 lines = 8.847.360 total pixels. So How much more horizontal resolution it could handle if it recorded at a 1:2.4 aspect ratio? suppose you have to maintain the same number of pixels because lowering the data rate wouldn`t help (since, as I understand, compressing actually takes MORE processing power, right?) So If my math is right, you could record at 1:2.40 aspect ratio, at a resolution of 4598 x 1923 lines = 8.843.877 total pixels That is 3.483 less pixels... Sou you could actually record at almost 4.6K resolution if locked to a 1:2.40 aspect ratio. It wouldn`t be useful in all situations, but certainly would be great for narrative features!

 

[Christian Jadot]

An update of my "realistic" wish list:

A 1.5K mode at 96 fps
A PAL almost 3K mode at 50 fps
A true S16 sensor crop
A true 4:3 sensor crop

-or-
Allow a user define custom sensor crop? Then have a formula to determine max frame rate?

 

[Carelton Holt]

+1 on the 4K framerates and HDRx. Certianly understand Epic has this and not looking for anywhere near Epic rates, but 48 fps in 4K would make the Scarlet a more valuable tool! I would much prefer NOT having to rent. It's not the cost as much as the time associated with thr rental process.

First I will just say this camera is brilliant, and far exceeded my hopes for what it would be, even after the 'Expectations...' thread in Recon. That was funny.

The only upgrade I'd like to see is an increase in framerates/HDRx in 4k. It's by no means necessary, and in the worst case scenario where it's vital I need to do clean slow-mo, I'll rent an Epic brain. Easy fix.