Scarlet X for 3D!?

[Mark Pavy]

I'm in the same boat as you Les, I've ordered a couple of Scarlets that I'll be using in a SBS config, mostly shooting landscapes, so no need for a beamsplitter rig. I'm working on leaving on the side ssd which I reckon will give a IO of 120mm-130mm. I'm also interested in when the Master/Slave setup will be available on the Scarlets.

 

[Steven Blye]

All Still glass will give similar results, no matter how good, its just simply the way the glass was designed, were none of the issues that a Cine Glass Manufacturer has to worry about, matter to the Still glass guys.

This is why we get the Motion artifacts, Breathing, Zoom movement more pronounced when zooming etc, more so in the Still glass then we do on Cine glass.

Then the more expensive it gets the more detail has been placed in this elements to make the lens as best as money can make it, were technology is not the limit.

If you must for restrictions of weight, money and or any other, test test test, you never know...

But I simply give up even trying on using Still glass for 3D...

So Ketch, what would you do for lenses for 3D if you were on a very small budget, but needed to purchase rather than rent to allow you to experiment and learn?

Thanks for sharing so much Ketch.

 

[Steven Blye]

I guess this question is a really hard one. Anyone?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

So Ketch, what would you do for lenses for 3D if you were on a very small budget, but needed to purchase rather than rent to allow you to experiment and learn?

Thanks for sharing so much Ketch.

I would use RED PRO PRIMES...

Unless you don't care much for sharpness, which for 3D you should, but to save even more you could try and find real old glass, PL mount,
no STILL GLASS, and might find something even cheaper the the RPP's.

However the RPP's are big and heavy on the Wide Focal, so this will play against you on 3D, as it did for me with Master Primes...

Bottom line is that you would really need to look hard to get some small Standard Zeiss PL Glass, and that would do probably best.

 

[Steven Blye]

Thanks Ketch.

 

[Steven Blye]

I would use RED PRO PRIMES...

Unless you don't care much for sharpness, which for 3D you should, but to save even more you could try and find real old glass, PL mount,
no STILL GLASS, and might find something even cheaper the the RPP's.

However the RPP's are big and heavy on the Wide Focal, so this will play against you on 3D, as it did for me with Master Primes...

Bottom line is that you would really need to look hard to get some small Standard Zeiss PL Glass, and that would do probably best.

Ketch, rereading the thread I realize that perhaps the Zeiss CP.2s I was assuming would fit the bill for filming 3D might be included in your caution about non-PL primes. Do you think the CP.2s would work or is there no solution for the quality you're after other than PL Primes?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch, rereading the thread I realize that perhaps the Zeiss CP.2s I was assuming would fit the bill for filming 3D might be included in your caution about non-PL primes. Do you think the CP.2s would work or is there no solution for the quality you're after other than PL Primes?

Zeiss, has definitely fallen very short with the CP, so its a NO for me on them.

 

[Steven Blye]

Zeiss, has definitely fallen very short with the CP, so its a NO for me on them.

Wow! I have to say that's a blow to me because I was counting on the Canon Mount for price and less expensive lens options. So then nothing but a PL mount leaves any real possibilities for a high quality output. That's a different situation than I was hoping for - or believing was possible. I don't suppose there is a EF to PL adaptor? My hope was a Canon Mount to use inexpensive lenses for learning and rent the high quality for production.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Steven, those that know me, know well that I am a very hard to please when it comes to glass for Cinema, for this I am extremely happy that Leica came along the way with
even superior quality then my all time favorites, the Master Primes, however this cost 5 times that of RPP's and other glass, so don't bit you self up for my choices and give any glass a chance,
test it yourself and make your decisions based on budget available for the purchase and needs.

 

[Steven Blye]

Steven, those that know me, know well that I am a very hard to please when it comes to glass for Cinema, for this I am extremely happy that Leica came along the way with
even superior quality then my all time favorites, the Master Primes, however this cost 5 times that of RPP's and other glass, so don't bit you self up for my choices and give any glass a chance,
test it yourself and make your decisions based on budget available for the purchase and needs.

Of course you're correct - my tastes for my choices - its just I've learned to respect your opinion and any testing woud be after purchase, unfortunately, of the camera mount - so perhaps to late to change course. Small budget, lesser options and corrections. But I'll have to see what will work within my budget, as you say.

Thanks Ketch.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Wow! I have to say that's a blow to me because I was counting on the Canon Mount for price and less expensive lens options. So then nothing but a PL mount leaves any real possibilities for a high quality output. That's a different situation than I was hoping for - or believing was possible. I don't suppose there is a EF to PL adaptor? My hope was a Canon Mount to use inexpensive lenses for learning and rent the high quality for production.

Best low budget options for 3D IMO are:

Red Pro Primes - we shoot 3D with them all the time on the ATOM rig. Big and heavy - but sharp as hell with no fall off. WAY better image than the Rouges when projected on a big screen.

RUBY zooms - see this article -> http://steadi3d.com/2011/07/focus-optics-ruby-14-24mm-test-pt-1-3d-testing-epicatom-rig/

 

[Steven Blye]

Best low budget options for 3D IMO are:

Red Pro Primes - we shoot 3D with them all the time on the ATOM rig. Big and heavy - but sharp as hell with no fall off. WAY better image than the Rouges when projected on a big screen.

RUBY zooms - see this article -> http://steadi3d.com/2011/07/focus-optics-ruby-14-24mm-test-pt-1-3d-testing-epicatom-rig/

I had forgotten about the Ruby Zooms and Pedro's test. That's a very interesting option. And the Red Pro Primes. Thanks Mark.

 

[Doug Horton]

agreed on the RPP's. Built an Atom up w/ Scarlet X's and RPP's a few weeks ago, and you can move very fast w/ this setup. Their characteristics are extremely similar so gave it a quick visual alignment, and checked the alignment afterwards with a SIP, very good numbers very fast. Although the barrels are different lengths for different focal lengths, the focus ring is in the same location so you don't need to adjust motors.

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

The only bummer about the RPP is that the focus scales are so sparse......I just marking the focus on the barrel is overrated. Almost every 1st I have ever worked with has complained about that.....

 

[Bruce Allen]

The only bummer about the RPP is that the focus scales are so sparse......I just marking the focus on the barrel is overrated. Almost every 1st I have ever worked with has complained about that.....

Pedro, please bear with foolish / uneducated Bruce.

Do you use focus scales when shooting 3D? I thought you had fancy controller-y thingies? So, Duclos focus scale engraving is needed for RPP?

I also do not fully understand why you can't use a standard Nikon 14-24 with a mount that controls aperture... is focus throw really important if you're using a fly-by-wire motor? Is it something else... is there slop or unevenness in the focusing or zoom of the 14-24 normally?

I remember last time you told me that if you order Ruby lenses as a pair, he can match 'em for you, which sounds awesome. But I do not have $25,000. Less awesome

I probably will rent everything anyway (and hire skilled folks such as yourself with what pennies I have) - but just interested of course!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Well.....doesn't matter 2D or 3D.....if the lens barrel itself is poorly marked then even with remote wireless follow focus devices you still have to take the time to "remark" your focus ring on your handset by placing a chart and slowing marking your distances on the handset focus ring.

If you using a follow focus on a 2D gig generally you just go off the focus marks on the barrel.....it's just the RPP doen't have that many of them. So that can complicate things a bit.

Take a look at most high end cinema lenses and they will have many more marks....in the closer rangers some of them are marked every few inches!

Pulling focus is a very very very very tough job. I decided to do somethnig easy like operate steadicam and stereography... ; )

Hire a good AC......and have a good prep. Then no problems at all....

 

[Doug Horton]

no disagreements there, but when in terms of working on a budget is where the RPP's shine I think. They match geometrically quite well, for a Rig Tech it's as easy as it gets. Their weight/size is an annoyance, especially with an Atom Rig since 114mm lens diameter is about all the size you can fit through the mirror box, so there isn't much room for adjustment... but again w/ a few days prep youknow the characteristics of the lens sets

s and it's a walk in the park. I do agree that the lack of mark's comparatively to other lenses is a drawback, but, it's a drawback that is able to be compensated for.

 

[Alex Sutherland]

I'm just beginning to dabble in 3D, so apologies for the newbie question. Has anyone been able to calculate the minimum subject distance to camera given the Scarlet's minimum side-by-side IO of 4" or 5"? All the calculators I've found for this kind of computation require an iPhone or iPad. =/ I'm guessing it's too far to be useful since Red axed their very clever looking 3D rig they conceptualized and rendered a couple years back.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Mark or other Redusers,

have anyone off you tried 2x 17-50 Red zooms for s3d.

I'm very please with the news about the redprimes being able to shoot 3d.

but indeed the ruby's seem interesting aswell..., how do they hold up against the 17-50's?

 

[Alex Sutherland]

I calculated it around 12 feet at an estimated 5 inch IO. That's practically unusable...for me anyway. Did I get that about right?