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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet X Data Sheet

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  • #81
@ Jarred - Thank you sir! I will ponder the severity of that favor :)

@Ketch - Thanks to you as well. I deal with a lot of people who "need answers" when it comes to camera information. Part of embracing digital cinema technology early on has been a whole lot of showing and convincing. Information like this makes it much easier for people new to Red to understand.
 
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  • #82
J Davis said:
because 4k at 50mm is equivalent fov to 2k at 25mm (your chart says 4k 25mm, 2k 50mm)
Click to expand...

Correct, if shooting at 2k with a 25mm and trying to match the frame at 4k with a 50mm. This chart allows people to quickly see that hopefully. I don't think it's unclear.

Everybody will figure it out once they start shooting with the different "formats".
 
yes aps-c glass. I predict that the aps-c sigma 30/1.4 is going to be a hot seller for portrait framed over cranking on a scarlet
 
Phil, you're a superstar. Now, things should be clear to most of the people reading. Exactly what I was trying to "provoke" :-)
 
Phil Holland said:
Correct, if shooting at 2k with a 25mm and trying to match the frame at 4k with a 50mm. This chart allows people to quickly see that hopefully. I don't think it's unclear.

Everybody will figure it out once they start shooting with the different "formats".
Click to expand...

After looking closely at the chart I must agree with J Davis. The APS-C relative crop chart is confusing. The way it is organized now, it requires sort of "double referencing" and right to left reading.
Let me quote you and read from the table:
"Correct, if shooting at 2k with a 25mm" - I look under 2k but there it says 50mm - so when thinking about 2k, people should actually look under 4k
"and trying to match the frame at 4k with a 50mm" - now when thinking about 4k people should look under 2k

If the chart is relative to 4k, than 4k should be the main reference. I.e. if 50mm is under 4k it means FOV with 50mm @ 4k - than under 2k there should be 25mm as it is the same FOV 25mm @ 2K = 50mm @ 4K.
I just feel it is easier on the brain organized from left to right. In its current form it seems as if everything else is the reference point and the 4k is expressed relative to 1K,2K,3K - it requires reading right to left.

When you start throwing, please use smaller stones :-)
I'll shut up and go hide my nag-ass somewhere.
 
Marko Hocevar said:
After looking closely at the chart I must agree with J Davis. The APS-C relative crop chart is confusing. The way it is organized now, it requires sort of "double referencing" and right to left reading.
Let me quote you and read from the table:
"Correct, if shooting at 2k with a 25mm" - I look under 2k but there it says 50mm - so when thinking about 2k, people should actually look under 4k
"and trying to match the frame at 4k with a 50mm" - now when thinking about 4k people should look under 2k

If the chart is relative to 4k, than 4k should be the main reference. I.e. if 50mm is under 4k it means FOV with 50mm @ 4k - than under 2k there should be 25mm as it is the same FOV 25mm @ 2K = 50mm @ 4K.
I just feel it is easier on the brain organized from left to right. In its current form it seems as if everything else is the reference point and the 4k is expressed relative to 1K,2K,3K - it requires reading right to left.

When you start throwing, please use smaller stones :-)
I'll shut up and go hide my nag-ass somewhere.
Click to expand...

Hey Marko, Phil's chart is not set up as a relative crop chart. His chart makes sense if you say

"my 50mm lens is on the camera and after I change modes to 2k my lens is now equivalent to ...
and chart says 100mm"

thats why he has 50mm under the 4k heading and 100mm under the 2k heading.


For anyone looking for an Equivalent Field Of View Chart (50mm at 4k is the equivalent fov as 25mm at 2k)
it would work like this.
Starting with the common primes on the left, then rounded to the nearest mm.
6332560227_f5e5f359e2.jpg


but once the concept is understood then its easy to do in your head.
 
This should be a frickin sticky. Thanks Phil, glad you me and zac were nerdy enough to be in line an hour ahead of time ;)
 
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  • #90
Christopher Polis said:
Might have missed something, but shouldn't 3K be 1.33x instead of 1.25x? I would have thought 3.2k would be 1.25x...
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Unless I'm crazy or I made a typo in the script that's creating this:
4k = 4096x2160
3k = 3072x1620

If you look at the Data Sheet with the FF35 information:
FF35 50mm, APS-H (1.3x) 65mm, APS-C (1.6x) 80mm, 3k (2x) 100mm, 2k (3.24x) 162mm, 1k (6.4x) 320mm

So if APS-C is your base. 80mm X 1.25 = 100mm, at 3k. Which matches the other chart.
 
Phil,Thank you very much for this information,thanks man
 
Again, thanks for all the work!

I have an important question, though it might seem very basic:

Does Scarlet X record 2k as an acquisition format or not?

Among the official tech specs on red.com 2k is not mentioned - whereas in Jim's Scarlet X Announcement thread it figures (diagram).

How to confirm??
As a documentary guy, I am thrilled by the idea to shoot 4k stuff with 35mm cine glass and to switch to S-16 lenses and 2k recording for long interviews or for focus-wise critical hand held situations.
Do I have to record 3k and crop the 2k /S-16 area with Redcine-X? How can I get my aspect ratio shown in the EVF (apart from taping the LCD)?

Voilà, my first post, after years of reading pleasures!

Thanks to everybody who helps to clear this up!!
 
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Sebastian Winkels said:
Among the official tech specs on red.com 2k is not mentioned - whereas in Jim's Scarlet X Announcement thread it figures (diagram).
Click to expand...

That is an interesting point. What this was based on was the image that Jim posted during the Scarlet X announcement, which has 2k on there:
1320458422.jpg


We'll know soon either way. If it's not there as of this moment, I imagine this is something that could be added via a firmware update.
 
A sticky point indeed - at least for me.
Would not bet on firmware fix possibility after reading what reduser wizzards where posting during the last week.

(Which didn't stop me from ordering on the 4th.)

Hoping for the best!
 
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Sebastian Winkels said:
Again, thanks for all the work!

I have an important question, though it might seem very basic:

Does Scarlet X record 2k as an acquisition format or not?

Among the official tech specs on red.com 2k is not mentioned - whereas in Jim's Scarlet X Announcement thread it figures (diagram).

How to confirm??
As a documentary guy, I am thrilled by the idea to shoot 4k stuff with 35mm cine glass and to switch to S-16 lenses and 2k recording for long interviews or for focus-wise critical hand held situations.
Do I have to record 3k and crop the 2k /S-16 area with Redcine-X? How can I get my aspect ratio shown in the EVF (apart from taping the LCD)?

Voilà, my first post, after years of reading pleasures!

Thanks to everybody who helps to clear this up!!
Click to expand...

The red.com site lists 1080P as an acquisition format. Because Scarlet's default aspect ratio is 1.90, that means 1080 is essential a 2K acquisition.
 
Red Scarlet HD acquisition format is almost equal to standard 16mm trusting Phil's acclaimed work.

How much res do you walk out with after debayering?
No matter what - you must be in sub HD res area.

That's why 2k recording does make a signicant difference - maybe similar to what S-16 did in the old film days to 16...

My issue is actually not so much about resolution in the first place, but more about wide angle options and lenses.
I want to be as close as possible to a S-16 image size, because I want to use S-16 cine lenses,
which are out there - affordable and in large numbers and have great performance all through the focal ranges and offer perfect handling (esp. focus).
 
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Sebastian Winkels said:
...

How much res do you walk out with after debayering?
No matter what - you must be in sub HD res area.

That's why 2k recording does make a signicant difference - maybe similar to what it did in the old film days...

...
Click to expand...

Tests on RED output up to now have indicated that the sensor resolve around 80%(+) of the nominal resolution after debayering; on a 2K image, that would translate to 800+ lines. Remember that no sensor is resolving the full 1080P nominal resolution; meaning that any 1080P CMOS camera is resolving significantly less that 1080P. When comparing apples to apples, RED still wins, hands down.
 
scarlet 2k window is 11.1mm x 5.8mm so that works out well for s16 glass.

I hope they bring back the red mini primes, I would be useful to have 6mm, 8mm and 16mm T1.5's to shoot 60fps through
 
That's right, but:
My initial question was weather Scarlet X is recording 2k - or not (according to 2 different versions of Scarlet specs published by Red).

I have no doubt that Red's 1080 raw footage looks better after debayering than other CMOS sensor signals do.

Actually I based my order on that belief.

I would just very much like to know which one of the 2 spec sheets is the right one...
 
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