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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet X Data Sheet

** Updated to reflect the maximum frame rate change at 4k up from 25fps to 30fps.
 
Do Red lenses on a Scarlet have a crop factor?

Do Red lenses on a Scarlet have a crop factor?

Thanks for your very helpful crop factor charts, Paul.

Question:
That Full Frame chart gives crop factors for full frame lenses when used with Scarlet's (not full frame) Mysterium-X sensor, right?

That is, the chart shows crop factors for a lens producing a full frame image circle but falling on the smaller Mysterium sensor, right?

The Mysterium is a 27.7 by 14.6 mm 13.8 (5120 by 2700 pixels) megapixel sensor, APS-H sized sensor. A full frame, also called "35mm," sensor is 36mmx24mm. So a full frame lens--that is, one yielding a full frame sized image plane circle--paired with the smaller-than-full frame sized Mysterium sensor would result in cropping of the full frame lens circle.

BUT Red lenses, I presume, produce image circles sized for the Mysterium sensor, right? So, a Red lens paired with a Mysterium sensor would have no crop factor, right?

That is, a full frame lens paired with a full frame sensor (e.g., Canon 5D, etc.) would produce an image with an uncropped angle-of-view. And a Red lens on a Scarlet would also produce an image with an uncropped angle-of-view. And, if both lenses were the same focal length, say 18mm, they would both have the same angle-of-view and the same visual perspective, right?

As a practical matter, we need lenses for a new Scarlet and are trying to select focal lengths for a frequent shot for us, -- one or two people, medium close up, at about 3 feet or more. We have used a Canon full frame 5D very happily with a 17mm-40mm.

Ideally we would want a slightly longer portrait lens but crowds and personal preference and camera-mounted audio mean staying close. One might think of these compositions as clean, beautiful portrait shots in a photojournalism setting.

Understanding crop factors helps understand how the angle-of-view may be reduced but we also consider the important issue of visual perspective. For example, a 11mm full frame lens may yield a cropped angle-of-view equivalent to, say, 17mm on a Mysterium-sized sensor. But the visual perspective would still be that of an 11mm lens and as such probably not usable.
Am I understanding this properly?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Mike
 
Incorrect and that defeats the logic of the chart, how lenses are labelled/manufactured, and what the term crop factor means.

Depending on sensor size the projected image circle gets cropped off as the sensor gets smaller and smaller. Hence the term crop factor and the difference in field of view.

Remember that crop factor is relative to where you start from as well. Which is why I included the "Relative to APS-C Sensor Crop Factor Chart" for those more familiar shooting with Super35, 7D, etc... You can set this as your 1.0x starting point if you'd like. The reason I started at FF35 on the "Data Sheet" is often, and perhaps more commonly in general photographic terms, we set our relative starting point for 1.0x on the FF35 sensor/film size. I also included it on this chart as Red in the past stated in their product road map that a FF35-ish sensor was on it's way in the future.

The particular useful function of this chart for Scarlet and even Epic is when shooting at different resolutions, i.e. crop factors, to match general framing with other shots or focal ranges. For example Roger Deakins recently stated that he enjoys shooting 32mm on S35 (which is around 4k sensor size-wise on Scarlet). If he wanted maintain the same field of view and shoot some 60fps material at 2k, he would want to use a 16mm lens to potentially match things up as the crop factor relative to 4k when switching to 2k is 2.0x. Where as if he would have stayed on the 32mm at 2k he would be punching in at 64mm from that same camera position.

The rules and laws of perspective don't change, but the field of view and what the camera "sees" does.
 
Added:

Camera Temperature Guidelines and Warnings

Dave Winder said:
The camera will shut down for temperature reasons. Below is the behavior you should get when reaching high temperatures.
At 72c the temperature display will turn yellow
At 74c it turns orange
At 75c the user speed is overridden and fan goes to max speed. Even if recording.
At 76c the temp display will turn red. Although max fan speed usually prevents getting there.
At 77c if you are recording, the record will be stopped
At 83c the camera will shutdown
Click to expand...
 
*update*

New firmware brings new frame rates. Added this "format key" to the first post:

Red Format Key
This is a key to the different Red capture formats. It contains the format name, max fps, resolution, and aspect ratio. I've included both Epic and Scarlet information on the same key; hopefully useful to those using Epic and Scarlet in A/B cam situations.

redFormatKey_1k.png

- Download 2k Version - Download 5k Version

I have also updated the Data Sheets to include the new frame rates and info.
 
Hey Phil, is the 6.4x crop factor at the new 1K resolutions confirmed? Just curious as I'm excited to experiment shooting with my 75-300mm which would then be an effective 480-1920mm lens. Thanks for making these data sheets by the way. They're invaluable! :cheers2:
 
Hey Phil,
Thanks for all your positive input, but can you post record times with the new resolutions like 3k HD in particular.

Thanks.
 
Jonathan Salvia said:
Hey Phil, is the 6.4x crop factor at the new 1K resolutions confirmed? Just curious as I'm excited to experiment shooting with my 75-300mm which would then be an effective 480-1920mm lens. Thanks for making these data sheets by the way. They're invaluable! :cheers2:
Click to expand...

It's actually a bit less since you're 1280 wide instead of the traditional 1k measurement of 1024. It's about 4am and I'm just getting in and in no shape for math dancing. I'll calculate it, but off the top of my head it's going to be around 5.2x I think. I'll update the charts reflecting that sometime tomorrow once I get some sleep.

A word to the wise about shooting 1k on both Epic and Scarlet. I spent several hours testing out the possibilities and potential of the new format. Black shade and shoot at the highest RedCode compression possible to obtain the best results. I would also favor lower ISO ratings for your shots and expose to the right when possible. At 2k and 1k the need for quality glass really shines through as well and many of the low to mid range still lenses are going to have difficulty producing pleasing results. Ideally it would be good to stop down 2 to 3 stops and achieve accurate critical focus.


R.Lee said:
Thanks for all your positive input, but can you post record times with the new resolutions like 3k HD in particular.
Click to expand...

Much of that information is approximately here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...6GB-HDRx%99%99&p=736335&viewfull=1#post736335

I may make an updated chart with all of the new formats. I don't know if it's entirely needed as this gets you in the ball park for sure.
 
Thanks for the info Phil. I really want to push the limits to see what is possible and at what quality. The 75-300 f4-5.6 is definitely one of those "pushing the limits" lenses. Some might even say, "why bother", but I've got a an energetic dog who is willing to run around all day free of charge...
 
Thank you, Phil. It has helped me to answer a RED production question at Cineversity. I linked to this page to give you full credit. :o)
 
More of a news update in case you missed it. Adobe Labs has released a new version of the Red Importer Plugin for CS6 and CS5.5.
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/redepic_importer/

- Support for RedColor3, RedGamma3, and Magic Motion
- Removes the need to conform audio on Red files
- Stability fixes for large Red projects on a Mac
 
This is exactly what I was looking for! We were doing crop frame to get 360fps and I was curious what the equivalent FOV would be for various lenses without having to try them all. Very cool.
 
Phil, this is awesome and invaluable resource for anyone using or planning to use scarlet. I'm planning on buying a scarlet soon, and I'm getting invaluable information from your scarlet(scully) thread abt the gear to buy along with scarlet. Very much appreciated, Thank you.
 
Hello all! It's time for a big update to this thread and add some additional material.

I've been approached by several people and have been asked to compile the Data Sheets and my other Red notes into a book, ebook, app, etc. While that would help my "Get Phil an Epic/Dragon Fund" I would like these quick reference cards and general information to remain free for Red owners, shooters, and others to use. Here's what's new:


changeLog 10.29.2012
- added additional common rectilinear focal lengths to all charts.
- added additial information/definintions for each graphic.
- updated format names to reflect the latest firmware (QuadHD has been depreciated)
- updated graphic "Red MX Format Crop Factors" with all available resolutions.
- added "HD" and "WS" markers to the Data Sheet for available formats.
- updated crop factor algorithm and rounded up non-standard focal lengths.
- updated Data Sheets with exact 1K WS resolution (previously was guestimate prior to officail release).
- updated the formatting of the first post to be easier to find what you're looking for.
- removed Adobe Importer instructions as it is not needed with Production Premium CS6.
- removed 1K and phantom audio notes as they are now enabled.
- created Red Mysterium X Relative Crop Factor graphic with both 5K and 4K as base recording format.
- created RedMag Record Time (in minutes) graphic with updated approximate record times and the newer 48GB and 512GB magazine sizes.
- compiled notes into "Red Quick Guide" as a pdf file for you to download and/or print.​



Red Mysterium X Relative Crop Factors
This graphic sets the "relative crop factor" at 5K or 4K. The purpose is to assist the shooter on choosing their desired focal lengths when changing formats to produce a similar field of view from their main recording format. An example: You've decided on renting a 32mm prime lens for a shoot, but know you want to shoot some overcranked 2K material to match the approximate field of view. With this chart you can see that you would also want to rent a 16mm lens to produce the similar FOV and feel of 32mm at 4K.

redMXRelativeCropFactors_1k.png

- Download 2k Version - Download 5k Version


RedMag Record Times
This graphic displays the recording times of all currently available recording formats and available RedMag capacities. I've listed the common production RedCode compression ratios from 3:1-12:1. Take note that the 48GB RedMag is designed for the current Scarlet X and it's max data rates. Currently we don't know how it performs on Epic.

redMagRecordingTimes_1k.png

- Download 2k Version - Download 5k Version


All of this can now be found on the first post of this thread. Once I there is an official announcement regarding final Dragon specs I'll add them to this thread and publish new graphics.

Happy Halloween!
 
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