Scarlet-X 2K performance?

[Todd Anderson]

If anyone from RED can answer this question, that would be great...

Basically, in the past, I know that the RED ONE had gotten the reputation as having a little soft 2K. Wether that was founded or not, that seems to be what I had heard. I guess my question is, for the new Scarlet-X, is the window 2K footage something that has been improved upon (the scaling, re-interpolation, etc) from the RED ONE 2K shot footage? I imagine many people that were looking to use the original 2/3" sensor for documentary purposes, or other styles of shooting, where as the 2/3" sensor (read: greater depth of field) is an advantage can obviously still do so with windowed 2/3" feature on the Scarlet-X. Same goes for people trying to squeeze 60 fps out of this camera. It is wonderful that there are some great Super16mm lenses out there that can help with all this (and it is much easier to do 'run and gun' style shooting with a Super16mm size zoom than a huge 35mm zoom, as would be obvious).

Anyhow, If the Scarlet-X 2k window mode readers footage that is on par with the 5K and 4K footage when scaled down, and let's assume the original prototype 2/3" scarlet that was abandoned, then I see the camera just as beneficial to those that had planned to purchase the 2/3" Scarlet specifically for that advantages that a 2/3" sensor would have brought. And of course, you get a 5k and 4k camera with 35mm shallow depth of field when needed to go now with this purchase, which I see as a nicer option than the former 2/3" only offering. Especially, considering that the camera size is basically the same as it would have been.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I am not from RED but one thing to note is that 2K footage from the RED One (and Epic, and Scarlet) is windowed, not "scaled down" or "re-interpolated." I can't speak to any "softness" as I haven't shot RED One much at 2K but it doesn't make much sense that it would be any softer unless for reasons beyond the windowing itself (lens, choice of de-bayering).

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

2k on Scarlet should look identical to 2k on Epic- same sensor. My tests have shown that 2k is a little noisy, but I haven't shot much since they released the new beta Epic build, which included 2k redcode refinements. If you can find some 2k r3d's here on the forum somewhere, that'll give you a good impression of 2k for scarlet.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Ah, yes. Basically like a cropped sensor for the windowing. That makes sense, Terry.

Perhaps, maybe with the RED ONE at 3K you got a little more oversampling for a 1080p deliverable than 2K to hide the noise. Maybe with the new sensor of the Epic and Scarlet-X (seeing how they are 'cleaner', I assume) and with the new beta Epic build, as Jonathan suggests, this will help with some of the noise a 2K? I would mainly be looking to use 2K for a 1080p deliverable. I realize there is just a little bit of oversampling at that point. I don't know if it warrants enough oversampling (2k to 1080p is not a huge jump) to benefit reducing the noise that Jonathan may suggests he sees a little.

Todd

p.s: as a side note, in a strange way, I actually kind of like the softness of RED footage at standard definition on a CRT (like on a DVD versus a blu-ray). It feels a little more filmic to me. I know that is going against what most people would want (I personally think there is too much emphasis on sharpness), but it has a 'look' on standard definition DVD (even with the 'not so great' mpeg compression) that makes it feel less perfect (best seen on a CRT, though, which is a shame). But it sometimes renders a little more of a pleasant image doing such. And note: I said, sometimes. But think of it as another 'look'.

 

[Sebastian Winkels]

Hi Todd,

I very much agree on your thoughts about Red-MX 's 2k performance and the S-16 glass opportunity/availability for Epic/Scarlet X at 2k recording mode.

I am just confused about the fact that we see differences between the tech specs published on red.com (scarlet product info) and on Jim's Reduser official Scarlet X Announcement thread:
On red.com 2k does not figure as an acquisition format - on the Reduser Scarlet X Announcement thread it does.

Supposedly we could not record in 2k with Scarlet X, we would have to stay in 3k and crop in post with Redcine X.
A lot of SSD time wasted plus the hassle to actually see a correct aspect ration in the EVF/LCD when shooting...

I really hope that Scarlet X specs might get further layed out and explained in detail soon.

In the meantime, it would be great to learn more about 2k recording/compression experiences from the Epic (or Red OneMX) crowd...
Does it make sense to put a S-16mm Canon 8-64mm, T2.4 on an MX sensor recording in 2k, in order to benefit from the great wide angle characteristics of that lens.

Or would the overall image quality of this combination be unsatisfying (for the big screen)?

Being drawn to the documentary cinema side, that's my personal Scarlet X Gretchenfrage at the moment...

 

[Michael Moreno]

Yes, I was wondering the same
if Scarlet/Epic 2K is more pleasing to the eye than Red One 2K

It would be great if someone could post some comparison footage
I am sure Scarlet/Epic 2K has to look at least a little better ?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

...

Does it make sense to put a S-16mm Canon 8-64mm, T2.4 on an MX sensor recording in 2k, in order to benefit from the great wide angle characteristics of that lens.

Exactly what lens is this? I am curious.

 

[Sebastian Winkels]

Among the most wide spread and well regarded S-16mm zoom lenses, that you saw on most SRIII or AATON cameras from early nineties on - at least in Europe.
(S-16mm Canon Zoom, 8-64mm, T2.4)

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Among the most wide spread and well regarded S-16mm zoom lenses, that you saw on most SRIII or AATON cameras from early nineties on - at least in Europe.
(S-16mm Canon Zoom, 8-64mm, T2.4)

Thanks... is there an adaptor to mount "b" lenses on the PL or Canon Scarlet mounts? If so, do you give anything up? Thanks again.

 

[Shane Betts]

Regarding noisy 2k from any of the Red cams, has anyone done a direct comparison between the same shot, one at 2k and the other shot at 4k and cropped in RedCine to the same 2k window? (I no longer have a camera of my own) I would fully expect it to be identical. In which case could it be that folk are comparing 4k @ 3.2k debayer to 2k @ 2k debayer, which is always going to look soft...

 

[Sebastian Winkels]

Thanks... is there an adaptor to mount "b" lenses on the PL or Canon Scarlet mounts? If so, do you give anything up? Thanks again.

It's a S-16mm film lens. So it comes with PL or (sometimes) with Arri Bayonett Mount.