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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet-W Production Update?

Luke Rob said:
to give you an idea , me and another guy on red user have been alocated the same exact day and we paid same day too... 1 month later I got mine and from what he told me he is still waiting..... alocated and paid on 12/05/16
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I'm the other Guy in this situation and I went through a dealer for mine.
 
I bought a lottery tickets today as the chances of winning seem higher than getting my scarlet w upgrade.

Weapon helium will be on order tomorrow:)

Are the orders actually time stamp dependent or on some other criteria?
 
Prediction: RED will discontinue all Dragon sensor cameras (if they have not already), and will offer some sort of Helium or other as-yet-unnamed sensor'd Scarlet at some point. They'll probably offer a deal to S-W waiters, but it'll cost more money of course. The problem with a Helium Scarlet is the existing Epic-W is just about the lowest specs you'd want with that sensor. That's why I predict we may see something a bit different.

I have no inside information, just looking at the ongoing inability of RED to get Scarlet-Ws and Ravens out in sufficient numbers due to (we think) sensor issues in Dragon production. People are still waiting from Day One orders like me, and seeing there were no new S-Ws shipped in January as promised, etc.

Meanwhile, yes as Suresh states, the Dragon is now "old tech", maybe as old or older than the sensors in Sony's F5, FS7, FS5. Which are also due for a major overhaul. So, agreeing here, I do not think a S-W is a good investment. Still a helluva camera, of course.
 
No new S-Ws shipped in January you think !? :001_unsure:
 
i would be first in the que if they did this and would happily pay a very very very small extra cost:) for a new senser as part of the upgrade

I'm not questioning how good the SW is but realistically how much better is the image to a SD. I was doing the math and i would have to invest with cards, side handle etc another 5-6K on top of the 10k upgrade cost to bring the camera on par with my current SD kit. IF the image is only marginally better and i don't need 120fps 4k (i would like it:) i don't think its a good investment with the age of the senser.

I wish i could justify a EW but all my clients have flat said NO! NO! NO! and the cost jump is massive, i do find it hard to believe that all the people that jumped on it have the work/ client base to cover costs and make a profit without renting it out for next to nothing but i could be wrong, I want it but i don't actually need it.
 
I agree with everything you say today, Suresh. I don't think it's a huge difference between S-D and S-W, image wise. Some people claim a stop. And the body's smaller. But yeah, bare minimum extra on top of the update cost is $5K-6K.

And Raphael- I'm not official by ANY means. But my rep promised me my S-W would be in the next batch, and I was told that this batch would be right after New Years. Didn't happen.
 
Good question. I sold my S-D to get it, over a year ago. I certainly want it.

Yet, from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense anymore to own a S-W for me. Maybe it doesn't make sense for me to own any RED now. I'm better off- and so are my clients- with us renting what the project calls for: Alexa, Weapon, Varicam, Sony, Phantom, whatever. Partly because I live in LA and NY, and renting is super cheap and reliable. And partly because RED is not the right camera for every project. And partly because S-W is now old tech. I'm not the only guy saying this, I know a few working DPs who have privately told me they are never buying another camera, outside of something small for themselves. It's not a winner, economically, for many- and a lot of people got burned with big camera buys.

But it's hard for me emotionally to let it go. I've been with RED since 2007.
 
the rental market route was always going to get slammed but so so so so many people jumped on buying cameras with that model in mind ( i just don't know where they got the money from) i've been hearing 2 or 3 for 7 on the kit hire front, thats got to be an effect of saturation

the scarlet was never a hire camera in my opinion, it just sat in a strange place but i've loved it, she's been very good to me

I'm glad i didn't sell straight away but kind of feel like i might get left with a lemming if i don't get rid of it soon. but that image ,workflow and codec are hard to walk away from
 
Yeah, I never understood the idea of Scarlet as a "I'll make my money back by renting it out" item either. I did love my Scarlet-D, as well. I did not like my original Scarlet (it was unreliable, and thus returned). The Red One and MX were tanks! I was hoping S-W would continue that route for us.

I had a photographer on set a couple months ago. He laughed at me and the DP talking about how pretty the images were, but that they weren't quite of a "RED" quality. He pointed out that nobody can tell the difference, if it's lit decently and color-graded. Wise man. And you know, that non-RED shoot looks fucking gorgeous and the client is thrilled with the work.

I guess as each day goes by, I'm moving further from "I gotta own this camera". So it goes.
 
true that , all my clients have been loving the GH4 set up for the speed flexibility and look, the gh5 will be even better i guess. Short of a new senser or i win the lottery :) i'm out of the red race

which i am very very sad about.

A friend with an epic D has said the same. he has been pushed to do the upgrade to maintain his place and discount but just can't justify it as it just not that much better than epic D + he's got a camera that is working, hearing all these horror stories which i'm sure are isolated incidents is not helping me push the big red button either.

Its the loosing data nightmare and poor or not as good as before audio setup for how i work
 
I learned this lesson when I had a Scarlet-MX. Of course it is completely different if you don't need your camera to make a profit but if you do...

How long have you/he had the camera?

Realistically I think you need to have a business model that allows to to pay it off and being in profit with it inside a year-18 months. After which point cameras are usually superseded and may not have the same demand in the marketplace.

If you've had your camera for over 2 years and not made your money back on it then it probably wasn't the right camera for your market. My Scarlet never made its money back, despite me shooting the best work of my life on it. My FS7 paid for itself inside 3 months.

I'm keeping the FS7 this time around as it is so popular and a Scarlet-W will be specifically for certain jobs and with less of a need to directly get the money back on it in such a hurry.

That said, an Epic Dragon is more than capable of producing stunning imagery for a good few years yet.
 
I had a place in the Raven queue since October 2016, and just recently switched to the Scarlet because I was told it would deliver faster. I am starting to think this isn't going to be the case. If we don't get the camera by May 1 2017 We will have to drop our order, due to a scheduled production.


Chris Carroll
Carroll Management Group LLC
 
patrickortman said:
I tend to agree, depending on one's market, maybe the plan should be pay it off in 8 months or do not buy.
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Just add one little thing for those that consider it. Remember Scarlet-W has an upgrade path and there's a bit of value in that if you are planning to move forward and/up in future cameras. A bit of hidden value in there outside of traditional ROI, something to consider.
 
Phil Holland said:
Just add one little thing for those that consider it. Remember Scarlet-W has an upgrade path and there's a bit of value in that if you are planning to move forward and/up in future cameras. A bit of hidden value in there outside of traditional ROI, something to consider.
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"hidden value" hahaha. "alternative facts" come to mind ;-)
 
Hey Phil

Do you think they will or should just drop the current scarlet w and raven and have a rethink? if a dragon is that difficult why not just let it go
 
The only added valve I see is an upgrade but if that happens a week after I would get mine I would be gutted and face it a pain in the ass for red. Just scrub that camera, offer upgrades to who's got them and move on. It's kind of never happend with the sencer problems, which is fine and no ones fault but let's get something new in the scarlet w
 
Suresh Kara said:
Hey Phil

Do you think they will or should just drop the current scarlet w and raven and have a rethink? if a dragon is that difficult why not just let it go
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Not Phil :)

But I don't think it's manufacturing Dragon sensors that's difficult. It's making 1000 cameras, and then 2000 people getting in the back of the line. The success and value of the product lends itself to being in back-order for freakin' ever. Hence, why they're trying to persuade people to move to a shorter line, with generous trade ins and discounts.

If they made a (just pulling guesses outta nowhere) 6K Scarlet Helium, a 5K 2:1 Raven Helium, or some kinda shoulder-mounted "traditional form factor/EFP" type of RED, that could alleviate the pressure even further... but then, where do you get that R&D bandwidth to make TWO MORE cameras? It's not an easy task... but they're gonna take care of the community in any case.
 
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