Scarlet-W or Weapon Magnesium?

[Tarquin Cardona]

This was an informative thread to read through.. So thank to everyone for your input.

A "concern" has been kind of raised for me, not a big deal but I want to address it. I have a Raven on preorder and while often hearing how Scarlet W was the best bang for buck over and over, it kind of made me want to switch. But then I knew for me I would be using EF glass and don't have a huge client base/need of 5k resolution yet on a professional level. Couldn't justify the switch. But the talk I've seen here about the new Red sensor coming in due time (can't fit into Raven fixed mount) plus the fact that Raven may not have an upgrade path, makes me wonder if it's better to bite the bullet and be a little more "future proof" by going for Scarlet W?

I think it was indeed said somewhere that Scarlet like the MG and CF would have a path to the future. Which is nice to have in your back pocket. But beyond that there is always the question beyond your talent, of what clients and producers and directors ask for. As they tend to read a lot of the same camera stuff we do, they have ideas in their heads about what is good enough, and what's the best etc... It's hard. They are all good cameras. But the Raven affordability is offset by the residual blue potential of the SW plus the upgrade factor. Only you know the road you are trying to head down.

 

[jordan levy]

I think it was indeed said somewhere that Scarlet like the MG and CF would have a path to the future. Which is nice to have in your back pocket. But beyond that there is always the question beyond your talent, of what clients and producers and directors ask for. As they tend to read a lot of the same camera stuff we do, they have ideas in their heads about what is good enough, and what's the best etc... It's hard. They are all good cameras. But the Raven affordability is offset by the residual blue potential of the SW plus the upgrade factor. Only you know the road you are trying to head down.

the only thing that i stepped back and tried to figure out was the history of upgrading and the math, and as cheap as the raven is, about $5K cheaper then the scarlet-w, im not sure having the scarlet-w will benefit you a huge amount as far as an upgrade cost vs buying another brain, as you see now, the scarlet dragon to scarlet-w is only a 2500 discount and the epic to weapon price is huge. so spending 5k on a raven is not a huge investment in comparison and saves you 5k right now.
anyway, my theory always goes back to if you dont need it now then dont buy it and you never know what two years from now will bring. we could be talking about dsmc3 and none of this is compatible, or it might be compatible but there just might be way more affordable systems by red and 3rd parties. think of the now.

 

[Daniel Reed]

In my experience with the epic I own, there was a hum/whine/buzz while using three different 2.0 front fans I tried/replaced.
Some epics seem less effected then others; I suspect this buzz is what some describe as "mechanical" sounding.

For me the 2.0 frnt fan was a location audio deal-breaker and constantly gave me headaches (as in my head hurt).
Granted I have what appears to be higher range hearing then most.

The frnt 2.0 fan in my epic since day 1 caused (3 different 2.0 fans tried):

buzz = from the assembly rattling in the slot
whine = electric grounding-problem sound
hum = from the mechanics/motor controlling the blade rotation

The buzz/whine/hum instantly goes away and my epic is very very quiet (near silent) w/ the 1.0 frnt fan combined w/ the top fan.
I've had zero heat issues/problems w/ this configuration.

I was able to order the 1.0 fan directly from RED on the phone.

YMMV

Why do you say the 1.0 fan? Just curious? I was pretty sure the Epic Dragon needed the 2.0 fans. I like the 2.0 fans better either way, I feel like there's more control options.

 

[Gene Sung]

im with you.
it's weird though with all the other new names they had a chance to get a new start with name recognition, but they chose to use an old name that was already associated with the low end versions.

I have it listed on my portfolio URL as "Scarlet-Weapon." Technically not the right name, but producers and directors who see the "Weapon" part will know it's the newer model. But yeah, I do wish they gave it a new name. One director already asked me: "Isn't the Scarlet the low end version?" I replied, "No, Scarlet-Weapon is in the middle, the Raven is now the low end version." Haha... Sorry Jordan.

I wouldn't stress out the name too much though. Usually, if they are impressed by your reel / work, that goes a bit further than what camera you have.

 

[jordan levy]

I have it listed on my portfolio URL as "Scarlet-Weapon." Technically not the right name, but producers and directors who see the "Weapon" part will know it's the newer model. But yeah, I do wish they gave it a new name. One director already asked me: "Isn't the Scarlet the low end version?" I replied, "No, Scarlet-Weapon is in the middle, the Raven is now the low end version." Haha... Sorry Jordan.

I wouldn't stress out the name too much though. Usually, if they are impressed by your reel / work, that goes a bit further than what camera you have.

haha, i just say "im getting one of the new RED cameras"… and i have zeiss lenses…(which is contax or sigmas)
if it goes any further i say it's the one that only does 4k, not 6 or 8k, but does 120fps…
that's all they have to know.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Or wait for the Epic-W.

 

[jordan levy]

Or wait for the Epic-W.

haha shhhhh!

 

[Darryl Harris]

The extra cash stings a little but one good project could make it easier

This is what I figure when I lean more towards S-W. Cry now, Laugh later. I don't want to subconsciously be looking to the future of gear when I have a perfectly capable DSMC2 camera.. I think the best protection against that is S-W. Especially since the price is likely to be only a 3,000$ difference (brain) after April 22 price raise of Raven.

 

[jordan levy]

This is what I figure when I lean more towards S-W. Cry now, Laugh later. I don't want to subconsciously be looking to the future of gear when I have a perfectly capable DSMC2 camera.. I think the best protection against that is S-W. Especially since the price is likely to be only a 3,000$ difference (brain) after April 22 price raise of Raven.

arent the mounts like $1k too?
you could almost get two ravens, or an evf!

 

[Brody_B]

It is unclear to me if the Weapon MG is upgradeable. I read somewhere it isn't towards the new 8k sensor. But Scarlet-W would be upgradeable?

Anybody know?

 

[Bob Gundu]

It is unclear to me if the Weapon MG is upgradeable. I read somewhere it isn't towards the new 8k sensor. But Scarlet-W would be upgradeable?

Anybody know?

There will be new sensors in addition to 8K sensors. MG and others below will most likely have a path to those. The 8K route is for CF cameras only.

 

[jordan levy]

There will be new sensors in addition to 8K sensors. MG and others below will most likely have a path to those. The 8K route is for CF cameras only.

also that, it's not like the scarlet-w is going to get you into an 8k camera.

 

[Darryl Harris]

arent the mounts like $1k too?
you could almost get two ravens, or an evf!

Yea the mount is 700$. Far from two functioning Ravens because accessories and etc. but I see your point. The evf is supposed to be amazing. I heard Blackmagic has a pretty good evf for the price, I couldn't help but laugh if/when I do see a BMD evf on a Red (nothing wrong with it imo) but, due to the arguing/fighting I've seen on BMCuser vs Redusers.

Hopefully more Ravens go into the wild sooner than later. The wait makes the mind wonder..

 

[Brody_B]

There will be new sensors in addition to 8K sensors. MG and others below will most likely have a path to those. The 8K route is for CF cameras only.

Cool thanks.

also that, it's not like the scarlet-w is going to get you into an 8k camera.

Certainly, just wondering what upgrade path options people are saying you get from the S-W. New better 5k sensor tech when it comes out? 5k to 6k sensor upgrade but with S-W brain? $2500 credit towards 6k weapon Dsmc3...?

Considering upgrade value when investing into a S-W over Weapon MG, when looking down the line for the future.

 

[Sergio Perez]

There will be new sensors in addition to 8K sensors. MG and others below will most likely have a path to those. The 8K route is for CF cameras only.

Where did you hear that Bob? Isn't that wishful thinking?

It does make sense that the other DSMC2 cameras will be upgradeable- the Obsolescence Obsolete mantra is part of Red's DNA- but if its not 8K, I don't see the point of upgrading- Full Frame 6K? Maybe. But that was my initial expectation for the Weapon Magnesium upgrade!

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Where did you hear that Bob? Isn't that wishful thinking?

It does make sense that the other DSMC2 cameras will be upgradeable- the Obsolescence Obsolete mantra is part of Red's DNA- but if its not 8K, I don't see the point of upgrading- Full Frame 6K? Maybe. But that was my initial expectation for the Weapon Magnesium upgrade!

He's right, there will be a new sensor (not 8k dragon)
Jarred mentioned something to this effect a while back specific to dsmc2

My guess would be 2017 NAB

 

[Robert L. Mickles]

It is unclear to me if the Weapon MG is upgradeable. I read somewhere it isn't towards the new 8k sensor. But Scarlet-W would be upgradeable?

Anybody know?

They both will supposedly have a path to 8K and future sensors/cameras, just a longer/more expensive path than CF.

 

[jordan levy]

They both will supposedly have a path to 8K and future sensors/cameras, just a longer/more expensive path than CF.

not sure about that, i definitely read somewhere where jarred said on the CF would have an 8k path.
the others will have an upgrade path to a new sensor on day, meaning they are upgradable, but not to 8k sensor size. i dont think there is physical room for it.

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

They both will supposedly have a path to 8K and future sensors/cameras, just a longer/more expensive path than CF.

Yes this is true. The MG will need to also upgrade to more expensive board like CF en route to 8k. Hence it will cost more to get there.

 

[M.Halsell]

There is a 4K, 5K, 6K and 8K. Which sensor size will have to share the bed?