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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet-W or Weapon Magnesium?

Matthew Quinn said:
ahh, ok I've been taking $400. that seems reasonable considering lots of people rent the 6k dragon for about $500
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wow, yeah, these are crazy cheap prices to me, so my only point was that im not sure id invest if i was counting on rentals.
 
I currently have a full Epic Dragon package and the means to upgrade to the CF, but I just pre-ordered the Scarlet-W yesterday.

For what I do and what my clients need, the Scarlet will be great. The difference between 6K and 5K when viewing on YouTube or Vimeo is negligible so losing 1K of rez and nicer data rates isn't enough to keep me. The weight and wifi will be huge, plus it puts me in the DSMC2 system.

It's different for everyone and depends on the work that you do ... for me it came down to how is the product being delivered (1080, 2K or 4K) and where is it going to be viewed (YouTube, Facebook, DVD, etc.) Since I don't require VFX work for what I do or big stabilizations, the extra 1K is AMAZING but not absolutely necessary. Again this is just my personal way of going about the decision.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
I've been doing very well.. People love this camera..
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i believe it! it's just perception and name recognition.
i just did a car job with the gymkhana production company, 20 gorpros and 8 epic dragons.
it all very well could of been shot with ravens.
though when the behind the scenes crew jumped in, with a scarlet and a sigma lens, i was like oh a scarlet on BTS and the director looked at me and said that's the toy red right? i was like no actually it's shooting just as nice quality we are im sure, have him get some shots, haha.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
One thing is for sure the scarlet-w is not a toy
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im with you.
it's weird though with all the other new names they had a chance to get a new start with name recognition, but they chose to use an old name that was already associated with the low end versions.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Just to complicate things further:) I think with the growing interest in the 4.6K Ursa at such a low price point I would wonder when the Scarlet W and Ursa tests start and that having the scale and reach of 6K in the MG becomes more of a point of distinction at the lower entry point which is getting ever more competitive beyond whatever we say here in this corner of the world. That area of the market is going to get very crowded and rife with passionate opinion.
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Good point. That distinction could matter for some gigs.
 
I see no point in point the Weapon MG route, if you go Weapon, go Carbon, Scarlet-W is a killer spec'd camera for the price.
 
Demetri Zuev said:
I see no point in point the Weapon MG route, if you go Weapon, go Carbon, Scarlet-W is a killer spec'd camera for the price.
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I respectfully disagree. The MG is a more affordable way to get 95% of the the current best from that sensor tech for 20K less. Unless you are planning on going to 8K no one is gonna care really - unless 4K pro res maybe. Otherwise its nuances and you know that Red will be coming up with new sensor tech in the next step so I tend to be more inclined to hold onto your wallet unless you have great reasons and big plans:)
 
fool control = EF lenses

4.5 WS vs 5K is not a deal killer in any respect.


My advise: order a Raven now before NAB for the $1K savings.

Then save up for the next big RED cam.


But, if you absolutely must use PL glass, then get any 2nd hand MX/dragon epic (make sure you get/use the 1.0 fan).
 
The only thing I worry is that the 4.5K is not FF so the little extra width does not buy a bump in Rez for the actual 4K. And now with BM and the Ursa 4.6 which is putting out cracking good images, the 5k for 4K and 6K for 4K argument makes more and more sense. If final output is always for web then maybe not so critical but there is a 'look' difference between Reds Raven and Ursa 4.6 and a lot of people like the clarity of the latter. Just saying.
 
Tarquin,

I screened a short in a theater that had scenes cutting between 5D (heavily processed) and 5K Red MX footage.
And nobody noticed.

Folks watch movies for story.


widescreen is basically scope/academy = classic movie feel

But if you really need 16x9 (TV), then 5K source will look better to you in 4K;
honestly very few beyond the editor will see the difference while watching your story.


For the whole hired gun thing, PL use, 16x9 target, and if you are not connected to writing;
then get the Red cams directors/pros want - either an Epic Dragon (w/ 1.0 frt fan) or Weapon.
 
Daniel Reed said:
Tarquin,

I screened a short in a theater that had scenes cut between 5D (heavily processed) and 5K Red MX footage and nobody noticed.

Folks watch movies for story.

widescreen is basically scope/academy.

But if you really need 16x9, then 5K source will look better to you in 4K;
honestly very few beyond the editor will see the difference while watching your story.

For the whole hired gun thing, use PL, shoot for 16x9, and are not connected to story writing;
then get the Red cams directors/pros want - either an Epic Dragon (w/ 1.0 frt fan) or Weapon.
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I agree on your story comment 100%. I actually base my observation on a couple of things. One: if you are a young DP trying to get hired you suffer a little from the interplay of 'influences' and 'influencers' - so clients or producers or directors these days are often internet prowlers and really if they read this, nofilmschool and newsshooter they probably know what buzz is going around without much effort. So purchase decisions sometimes have to lock step with 'perceptions' even if as a camera owner you feel the perspective is not fair. Two: from a broadcast standpoint. Shows test their tools and I know for a fact that 5K for 4K is deemed the pro sweet spot for Red. Again I am with you. I also think too little is made of if one just prefers the look of a camera. I am only chiming in because I felt the person who asked was trying to make a prudent biz decision for themselves and as someone who went for a few years really pushing Epic even in the face of Arri uber alles etc.. I know these choices are tough.
 
Brody_B said:
Care to explain why?
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Because simply put - Weapon MG is the same camera as Epic Dragon +10% improvement, while Carbon is a real upgrade from Epic Dragon, so I don't see why would I get a MG instead of a used Epic Dragon in this case. That 10% just doesn't cut it for me.

Scarlet-W on the other hand is a whole different price point. Just imagine what you can do with the money you save from Weapon MG if going the Scarlet-W route.
 
Daniel Reed said:
fool control = EF lenses

4.5 WS vs 5K is not a deal killer in any respect.


My advise: order a Raven now before NAB for the $1K savings.


Then save up for the next big RED cam.


But, if you absolutely must use PL glass, then get any 2nd hand MX/dragon epic (make sure you get/use the 1.0 fan).
Click to expand...

Why do you say the 1.0 fan? Just curious? I was pretty sure the Epic Dragon needed the 2.0 fans. I like the 2.0 fans better either way, I feel like there's more control options.
 
This was an informative thread to read through.. So thank to everyone for your input.

A "concern" has been kind of raised for me, not a big deal but I want to address it. I have a Raven on preorder and while often hearing how Scarlet W was the best bang for buck over and over, it kind of made me want to switch. But then I knew for me I would be using EF glass and don't have a huge client base/need of 5k resolution yet on a professional level. Couldn't justify the switch. But the talk I've seen here about the new Red sensor coming in due time (can't fit into Raven fixed mount) plus the fact that Raven may not have an upgrade path, makes me wonder if it's better to bite the bullet and be a little more "future proof" by going for Scarlet W?
 
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