Scarlet vs GH1

[Tanner Field]

Hey Guys,
So, I realize that Jim said that scarlet is changing again today... but I was planning on making this post, so I just decided to do it anyway.. hoping we could all just go off of the scarlet specs we already know (if somehow the low end scarlet gets bumped up to an s35 sensor then this thread will be officially moot... but until then..)
Anyway I have been interested in the Scarlet for quite sometime like most of you who are browsing this forum. Seems like an amazing deal: RAW footage, interchangeable lenses, above average sensor (2/3rds,) etc., etc., etc., I have been working hard to save the money for it.
I have been keeping up with the news on the 5D MkII, and have (briefly) used it. Nice camera overall, but the lack of manual controls removed it from my radar... also the h.264 compression along with... well let's just say that in my mind the fact that the video was a last minute addition shows in my eyes.
However, I have begun to hear about the new Panasonic GH-1. I must say that it has grabbed some of my attention. Full manual controls with a larger sensor and 24 1080P recording. The interchangeable lens is great as well... and on top of that it will have great DoF giving me, as a filmmaker, more options and choices, and it comes in at a cheaper (but still higher than I hoped) $1,500.
So how many perspective scarlet owners have had their eye caught by the GH-1?
However it goes back to that classic debate of what matters more to you... they both have their talents. I am first and foremost a director. However, recently still photography has been becoming a hobby of mine. So, ideally i'd like a camera that could do both stills and motion well. The scarlet's 5mp give me some pause... I know mps aren't the be all and end all of still photography, but they do matter... and 5 might just be a bit too low for me... the 12 on the GH-1 is quite nice.
The interchangeable lens thing is an interesting area. Ideally, like anyone, I would love to slowly over time start building up an arsenal of different lenses, but I consider either the GH-1 or Scarlet 2/3 to be a stepping stone to an eventual S35 or FF35 where I would end up having to start my collection all over again. So, in that sense I wouldn't be able to start a collection anyway of 4/3rd lenses or 16mm lenses because I would most likely sell them anyway... scarlet seems to have more lens options which really is a plus might I add...
anyway I could continue to ramble about this for another few pages, but I think I'll put this question out to you guys and see what the community thinks... so anyone considering the GH-1 over the Scarlet and why?
(I realize that neither has been fully tested by consumers and we only have some basic images, video, and specs to go off of... but once again this is a speculative comparison, something it seems we love to do here :thumbsup

 

[PatC]

They are different products for different people.

 

[Tanner Field]

Yes they are different products... but theoretically they could both fit the needs of the same person.

 

[Luke Stewart]

AVCHD vs. RAW... No comparison.

17mb/s Data rate vs. REDCODE 42...No comparison.

 

[Steven Swigart]

I agree that it comes to the data rate as well. The GH1 will record in AVCHD (compressed video), while the RED will shoot in a superior RAW style format. So it depends on the need of the project and shooter.

If your just uploading content to the web, then you might not need such a high data rate. It depends on the projects that you will do.

Although one might be able to obtain uncompressed video from the GH1 through it's video output port, but it's too early to know for sure.

As you state: It's WAY to early to be comparing the two models, but not too early to be following them both.

I think the Scarlet will be the more professional camcorder of the two, but the GH1 might just give the Scarlet a run for its money.

Edit: So prosumers and nobudget indie filmmakers might lean towards the GH1, but for most professionals the RED Scarlet would still be the more likely choice, imo.

But, all this is way to speculative, since we have no idea what RED is up to this time. Should be exciting!

 

[Solomon Schechman]

This might sound like a really stupid question but how do you shoot "Full HD 1080p" and not have a large enough image size?

-Solomon

 

[Tanner Field]

Edit: So prosumers and nobudget indie filmmakers might lean towards the GH1, but for most professionals the RED Scarlet would still be the more likely choice, imo.

As I've been thinking about it, I would say that this line sums it up completely. But, yes... can't wait to see what Jim and the gang have been up to. April is going to be an exciting month for the cinema world that's for sure!

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

This might sound like a really stupid question but how do you shoot "Full HD 1080p" and not have a large enough image size?

-Solomon

Measurable resolution is what ultimately matters, and AVCHD will always end up with a lower final resolution than Redcode. You can have a 1080p image that has an actual resolution much lower than its pixel resolution. But, again, this is all speculation, as neither product is available and niether has been reviewed.

 

[GPSchnyder]

I'll buy the GH1, as I wanted to replace my DSLR with one that "really" records Video anyways. But I'll not not buy the Scarlet for that. I had the D90 before, but sended it back due to it's not working for me wobble.

And the GH1 has Audio, so I can use it for small Webvideos for my blog with it featuring a more filmic look. But it's in no way compareable with the Scarlet. It's like saying I've got this Cheaper DSLR, but it only takes pictures in jpeg. It's just not the Same Qualitywise.

 

[Karl Gustav H.]

Remember that despite the marketing the GH-1 does not record 24p. The sensor data is dumped at 24fps but it is recorded at 30fps with some flavour of pulldown

 

[Isaac Brody]

AVCHD vs. RAW... No comparison.

17mb/s Data rate vs. REDCODE 42...No comparison.

The GH1 will be available in less than a month (Being released in Japan on April 24th, expect models to pop up on ebay soon after), while the Scarlet has an unknown release date. Winner: GH1

The GH1 price will be much more competitive in this economy and at 1500 not only does it come with a lens but you can buy an adaptor to use your photo lenses. The cheapest working ready to shoot Scarlet model is the 2/3 fixed lens model which costs $3750. Winner: GH1

No doubt Redcode trounces AVCHD, you're right that's it's not even worth comparing. However:

Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it.

It would be nice to have Scarlet soon. If we have to wait until fall we might as well all carve giant A's into our chests... :thumbsup:

 

[Isaac Brody]

Remember that despite the marketing the GH-1 does not record 24p. The sensor data is dumped at 24fps but it is recorded at 30fps with some flavour of pulldown

This isn't a new thing, the DVX does this, the HVX does this, and every film transferred to video has pulldown added. Removing that pulldown is a pretty simple process in NLE's. The disadvantage to the pulldown is lower recording time on cards, but it is real 24P, not 30P like the 5DII.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Remember that despite the marketing the GH-1 does not record 24p. The sensor data is dumped at 24fps but it is recorded at 30fps with some flavour of pulldown

I'll get the European one where 25p is packed into 50i which should not be that big of a Problem.

 

[David W. Jones]

It all boils down to need vs want.
Do you need a camera, or just want a camera?

 

[Adrian Frearson]

I think the Scarlet will be the more professional camcorder of the two, but the GH1 might just give the Scarlet a run for its money.

I'm planning on buying a GH1 when it's released and using it for personal projects/b-cam/travelling etc. I already use the four thirds system ( Olympus ) and like it a lot, the lenses are great performers, so it's a no brainer for me. However I'm still looking to the 2/3' Scarlet as a working camera, which I can use as a freelancer, for some work I hope to be able to use the GH1 too.

There could be some some overlap between the 2 cameras, but as long as the Red team release a stable, robust, professional grade camera that can work well day in day out, then this IMO will be the biggest difference between the Scarlet and the other hybrid DSLRs. Hopefully they will take their time and get this right.

Adrian

 

[GPSchnyder]

I already use the four thirds system ( Olympus ) and like it a lot, the lenses are great performers, so it's a no brainer for me.

I have a Olympus too and I love the pictures it produces. And it was clear that I would switch to micro four thirds as soon at the first cam is released with video. It's a Plus for me that it seems to be a really great cam also ;-)

And as I get the one in the middle I can say that I bought a Red Cam ;-)

 

[Adrian Frearson]

And as I get the one in the middle I can say that I bought a Red Cam ;-)

Ha! So you're buying the red one! Not too sure about the gold, I read somewhere there was going to be a Paris Hilton model or something equally ridiculous.

Adrian

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Ha! So you're buying the red one! Not too sure about the gold, I read somewhere there was going to be a Paris Hilton model or something equally ridiculous.

That would be the gold-digger model.

 

[GPSchnyder]

Ha! So you're buying the red one! Not too sure about the gold, I read somewhere there was going to be a Paris Hilton model or something equally ridiculous.

Yeah. The Gold one just looks ridiculous. And it's not available here in Germany. Only Black and Red. Maybe that Paris Hilton Thing doesn't work here ...

George

 

[Michael Olsen]

Hi Tanner,

So you know where my viewpoints come from, I'm looking at getting my first camera. I have no hands on experience with film (aside from a $150 Polaroid handycam), and am basically looking at getting my feet wet. The Scarlet offers a lot, and I will definitely buy it when it comes out. But I could be gaining experience, building a reel, and earning money now.

To me, the GH-1 fits my needs very well. It provides "HD" output suitable for a lot of lower-end applications. I can experiment with lenses, DOF, aperature, etc. I can learn about lighting. I can use decent audio. I can make shorts, shoot interviews, and even lower-budget events like weddings and private parties where the customers are willing to have a little less quality for the reduced cost. Where I live, it seems most videographers are still shooting SD anyway.

I will, at most, be watching/showing films on a large HD TV or 720p projector. Most of my content will be for vimeo or web distribution. Any commercial work will be printed to DVD and, again, probably viewed only on a moderate quality HD TV.

Is this the best? No. It simply won't offer the quality of a RED ONE or (imho) even the 2/3" Scarlet. But (assuming rumors are true) it is ~$1500 not ~$30,000 and it is available "nowish" not...well, later. And it's even possible that the money made from using the GH-1 in the mean time could put me in the bracket for two 2/3" Scarlets, or an S35 instead of a 2/3". That would be really nice.

As many people have said on here - buy what you need when you need it.