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Scarlet vs Canon 1DC...?

Peer Landa

Peer Landa

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I'm one of those still on the fence -- Epic, Scarlet, etc... or maybe a Canon 1DC (have to admit that ever since the 1DC was announced, I've been tempted). So I just got an email from a 1DC owner, stating (amongst other things) that his camera will "On the lowlight end, the 1Dc would be running circles around a Scarlet."


Please give me some arguments for the Scarlet (or Epic), and I'll pull the plug on my deviant Canon thoughts.


-- peer
 
Peer Landa said:
Neither.
Click to expand...

If I were in your shoes and about to spend this type of money I'd rent both to see which you're more comfortable on.

At a minimum I'd download sample files to see exactly what you'll be looking at.
 
No disrespect to your friend Peer, but aren’t there other important factors in choosing a camera besides low light test results?! That’s like saying a Honda Accord is better than a Ferrari because the Accord gets better gas mileage.

In all seriousness, some would say REDCODE, RCX, Lens Mounts as all being good arguments for buying a RED. They are right, but I would say having a Bomb Squad Rep is pretty fantastic. The only thing that has a number at RED is the cameras, not the customers; at least that’s how my rep makes me feel.

Horses for courses, you'll need to find out what courses you plan to run so you can pick the right horse.

Adam
 
Adam Beck said:
No disrespect to your friend Peer, but aren’t there other important factors in choosing a camera besides low light test results?!
Click to expand...



Isn't literacy bliss?! If you read my initial post more closely, you'll see that this (low-light issue) wasn't the only thing this 1DC owner mentioned -- or as I put it; "...I got an email from a 1DC owner, stating (amongst other things) that his camera..."


So yes, there are quite a few factors that apply other than low-light shooting. Hence, that's why I wanted to hear from someone who has shot with both of these cameras.


Just as Phil pointed out, since this is a substantial purchase I'd like to make sure that all bases are covered -- that includes asking for advice on this forum.


-- peer
 
Peer Landa said:
That's trivial... and not very comprehensive (unless it's a pure A/B test).

So, Phil, what's your take on those two cameras, vis a vis...?

-- peer
Click to expand...

I'm fairly addicted to working with raw formats. I actually had to make that decision. I went Scarlet, then to Epic, next up Dragon.
 
I was just stating the one argument that you did mention, as "amongst other things" is not an argument why the 1DC is better. It would be nice to know what those other things are. How do you plan to use the camera? Are you doing narrative work, weddings, docs, etc?
 
Adam Beck said:
I was just stating the one argument that you did mention
Click to expand...



Well, you quoted me as if this was the "only" thing this 1DC owner mentioned, omitting my "literacy is bliss" snide -- as in; you did not thoroughly read my initial post.


Anyways, I'll try this again -- and now putting it as bare-boned, simple, easy, plain, and straightforward as possible:


I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with both 1DC and Scarlet/Epic.


Thank you.


-- peer
 
Hi Peer

I own an Epic and have shot with the 1DC (mainly cause client insisted).

They are worlds apart, and as others have said it's difficult to compare.

The 1DC is first and foremost lighter, noticeably lighter then a bare bone Epic. Working with RAW is a dream, working with motion jpeg isn't.

Low light goes to the 1DC, scaleability goes (big time) to the Epic/Scarlet.

The list goes on and on..so unless you've got specific areas you'd like addressed the question is wide open.

on a personal note, I went RED after owning canon gear for the last 12 years, and have NEVER looked back. Working with anything other (except Alexa) seems like a compromise
 
I've shot/shoot with both. In my opinion....

The 1DC is quicker, quieter, longer lasting, lighter, more versatile (stills and video, and don't try and tell me a still frame grab from red compares), is a complete package and shoots beautifully sharp and pleasantly coloured 4k video to relatively affordable media.

The Scarlet/Epic (MX sensor) is more expensive in the end, slower, noisier (both in fan noise and video noise), heavier, difficult to hold, requires massive batteries, expensive media and doesn't really shoot stills.

I would prefer my red camera any day. That comes without bias.... Or red fanboi-ism-ness... Why?

1). Because of the dynamic range, highlight retention and all the benefits that 16bit raw processing offers.
When you have footage from both cameras in the edit suit, you quickly learn to fall in love with the difference that red offers. Not only the specs I'm writing about here, but there's something different that you need to see for your self. That difference will really only be appreciated when you learn to master your medium that is RedCode.

If the 1DC could shoot Raw.... It would be a completely different comparison. But since its destroying so much beauty and power with its 8-bit super lossy compression, the artist/cinematographer is restricted in ways that in my opinion don't justify the $14K price tag.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'm fairly addicted to working with raw formats. I actually had to make that decision. I went Scarlet, then to Epic, next up Dragon.
Click to expand...

would agree with Phil. You really realize the advantages when you start pulling S curves in a raw workflow. The amount you can out of a raw image is incredible. No pro photographer shoots jpeg, so who would we shoot the comparable in QT file.
 
If the 1D was unlocked for RAW video, I think it becomes an interesting conversation. In the meantime, the Scarlet holds advantages in the video department. On the other hand, if the codec is less important than portability, stills capability, etc maybe the 1D is a better choice for your situation.
 
Peer Landa said:
Isn't literacy bliss?! If you read my initial post more closely, you'll see that this (low-light issue) wasn't the only thing this 1DC owner mentioned -- or as I put it; "...I got an email from a 1DC owner, stating (amongst other things) that his camera..."


So yes, there are quite a few factors that apply other than low-light shooting. Hence, that's why I wanted to hear from someone who has shot with both of these cameras.


Just as Phil pointed out, since this is a substantial purchase I'd like to make sure that all bases are covered -- that includes asking for advice on this forum.


-- peer
Click to expand...
Peer,

I own both an Epic and a 1DC. Due to the nature of my shoots and content both have advantages and disadvantages.

For me I sometimes need a strong low light camera that still delivers 4K with just natural lighting. The RED doesn't win in this category. I also shoot sports where 120fps at 4K is a common request. So obviously the RED wins here. From time to time I shoot in places where I need to be in and out quick, or where video/cinema cameras may not be allowed. While the RED is quicker then most, and smaller then most cinema cameras. It's still hard to be sneaky with it. Especially having such a big name even among general society these days. 1DC wins here big time. I also do jobs where stills are required. I know you can pull stills from 5K but it still doesn't match stills from an actual still camera in my mind.

RED obviously wins in raw and frame rates. Just depends what you need the camera to do to be honest. 1DC has banding issues when you shoot Canon Log below 400 ISO at 4K. Only real glitch i've noticed. All of your choices are awesome cameras. If I had to buy just one I'd get an Epic obviously. But sometimes different jobs call for different tools.
 
Different price points. 1DC due to its 12k USD pricing is much more affordable by smaller productions. As owner operator it will not hurt you bidding for smaller projects with a 1DC as opposed to a lowering rates with Epic.

1D C: Small size + 4K + DSLR form factor+ low light ability. No XLRs . Its powerful - a DLSR on steroids.

With a 1D C, you can pose as a photographer and get footage which you can't do in any other 4K camera (for example shooting stealthily/ without permits). A lot of indie producers are now asking for 1D C due to these benefits.

Raw files gives more flexibility and are advantageous if you have the budget and time to do post processing. The high fps of Epic/Scarlet is good to have in certain situations. These are sizable investments. So better to keep our gear lust aside and decide based on client needs and how fast one can recoup the investments. Let us know which way you went.
 
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