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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet - some warnings around the workflow

I took the liberty of de-dramatizing the title.

Ryan has of course very valid points. But for any technical company, it is important that they understand the repercussions of changing their core equipment; in this case changing from a tape-based miniDV workflow to R3D.
 
Totally agree...
I'm still working on my new workflow before I buy the (Fixed) Scarlet.
Perhaps new MAC, certainly extra storage, a new stoage and backup workflow, final output medium (DVD, BlueRay, internet (Vimeo),...) ...
Putting your RAW footage into iMovie is not the way to go ;-)
 
The article has valid points.
Spending so much time updating my knowledge as I quote:
"4. The learning curve-
Be ready to spend a lot of time figuring all of this out, and be ready to re-examine your previous thoughts & conclusions."
I don't have time to comment to all, but I do want to add and I quote:
"As much as I love shooting RAW, it is not for every project, nor is it for every production. Just like 35mm and 16mm are not for every production. Used well, RAW can allow for creative opportunities not possible with other digital formats. So consider yourself warned, and let’s get out there and push this format as far as it can go!"
There are around 7000 Red Ones and there are going to be ..... thousand of Scarlet and who knows. It is insane and there will be many production who will use the wrong camera or the right camera in a wrong way.
With so many cameras, there is no way you can avoid that... may I suggest the phrase unknowing disrespect?
 
We should be able to set Scarlet/Epic to "720P or 1080P scaled recording" and shoot it more or less like a normal video camera, though, right? One doesn't have to use REDRAW for every production?

If so, this mitigates all but the first warning...which is to back it up. Which should really be the first warning on every list no matter what.
 
In my case, i have 17" Macbook Pro 2.4 Ghz so there is no way i can handle it in post, so i need RedRocket 4750$ + Mobile Rocket 999$ and some extra cash for storage. That's more than 10k for Fixed Scarlet. Of course it's not the RED concern after all, but many buyers forget the fact: Will it handle?!
 
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Yeah why call it Warning. Everything you mention in there is more general workflow for going tapeless- not really Scarlet specific. How about FAQ...

Noah
 
Martin Von M said:
In my case, i have 17" Macbook Pro 2.4 Ghz so there is no way i can handle it in post, so i need RedRocket 4750$ + Mobile Rocket 999$ and some extra cash for storage. That's more than 10k for Fixed Scarlet.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? Your system would have no problem cutting Scarlet footage with FCP or Premiere as is. It's only Red Rocket if you want all the real time transcode and that sorta thing. But no means required.

Noah
 
An interesting thing is that I can edit RED 2K proxies in REAL Time at 2K on my 8-core mac pro, however, I cannot edit 5DmkII footage in real time. In order for me to edit 5DmkII footage in real time, I have to convert it to ProRes.

That's not something that I think most people were aware of.
 
Noah Kadner said:
How do you figure? Your system would have no problem cutting Scarlet footage with FCP or Premiere as is. It's only RED Rocket™ if you want all the real time transcode and that sorta thing. But no means required.

Noah
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Well if you tend not sleeping at nights, than it's an option ;]
 
Martin Von M said:
Well if you tend not sleeping at nights, than it's an option ;]
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It's not as though you need to sit there watching the progress bar as it trancodes the footage. Just let it run overnight.

I think RED would benefit from a simple tutorial thread. There's plenty of raw footage out there that's available for download, and I think a lot of this confusion would be cleared up if more people downloaded it and started playing around with it.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
You can output from the RED Rocket™ via DVI and SDI/HD-SDI. If you want HDMI output, you will need to buy the breakout box and HDMI has not yet been enabled with the current firmware. Currently, output from the ROCKET only happens through REDCINE-X and ROCKETCINE. But that should change as more developers start incorporating functions. The latest version of clipfinder may have monitor out support from the ROCKET, I'm not sure. You may or may not need a Kona card, depending on your workflow.
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I planning on getting a Redrocket later but it seams like it only work with Rocketcine X. Its alot of money if you cant use it in fcp etc.
 
Martin Von M said:
Share your ideas on this:

http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/files/Scarlet_Warning.html
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It sounds to me like Ryan Walters is trying to scare people away from making the change because his workflow is about to become much more accessible. Maybe not, but I've definitely worked with my fair share of Camera Ops who are worried about things like this. I think it's pretty ridiculous. I would encourage anyone to take on new technology who is interested. I mean you're probably going to need to learn it someday anyways.. why wait?

My point is that anyone can learn a new workflow and everyone should be encouraged to do so. It's in poor taste to discourage anyone from achieving higher image quality, especially when it's reasonably affordable.

-Ryan
 
Anybody who just switches without considering the consequences for being ill-prepared deserves any grief they get in my opinion. Nobody I know who runs RED simply decided to ditch their tape based systems. Everything was carefully thought out so that clients would not be disrupted. Valid points or not, Ryan's 'warning' smacks of the MO of a rank amateur.
 
David (dudi) Namir said:
As much as I love shooting RAW, it is not for every project, nor is it for every production.
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First off, I realize that's you quoting the article. I'm not attributing this quote to you.

I never shoot jpeg with a DSLR. Maybe if I was doing some kind of event photography where I had to spit out prints immediately I'd shoot jpeg, but I kinda doubt it. There's just too much additional image quality on tap with a RAW workflow to go back to shooting jpegs like I did with my first point-and-shoot a decade ago. Even if it was just the ability to tweak white balance nondestructively it would be worth it, but there's so much more potential there than just white balance. I don't own a Red One, but I have a couple of acquaintances who do and I've spent a lot of time pounding on samples trying to see what can be milked from the system. It's a very impressive way to shoot. It's a huge selling point on Red's side, IMO. And nothing to get frightened about. If you're trying to be an owner/operator and RAW frightens you then you're probably looking at the wrong profession. All IMO, of course.
 
To be fair to Ryan, there are definitely a large number of people who will need to hear these things. RED is stepping out of the world of the seasoned industry professional into the world of low/micro-budget indie films, which includes many less experienced crewmembers.

There are still a great many people confused about how to edit footage out of a DSLR without having to buy a $4000 computer. And all you have to do is transcode to an intermediary codec.

So while the article is, in my opinion, perhaps a bit overly cautious, there will definitely be people who need to understand that it is entirely possible that what you see in the viewfinder and/or on the monitor is NOT what is going to show up first thing in the editing room. And these people very well may flood the forums saying: "I shot it, and it looked great, but now its all grey and desaturated and flat! RED sucks!" simply because they don't understand the nature of the RAW process. And frankly, some of these people will need to be told about the RAW process numerous times. Remember back when all of this was new to everyone here...there was indeed a shallow learning curve. Some might say it is still going on.

Edit: To point - taking a look through the recent REDCINE-X threads and the forums in general, there are a number of relatively seasoned RED users confused as to how to properly use the new tools. Again, this is confusion coming from people who are already familiar with the process of shooting RAW, using REDCINE, debayering, and so on. Imagine how all of that would seem suddenly very foreign if you've been shooting only on an HVX-200 or an EX-1/3 where everything goes pretty much straight from the camera to the NLE.
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
It sounds to me like Ryan Walters is trying to scare people away from making the change because his workflow is about to become much more accessible.

-Ryan
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etc...

What is with all these topics with people freaking out over people explaining the things you need to prepare for when shooting RED?

There is going to be a "Things You Must Know List" for every new format. But RED Users suddenly seem to think this is some sort of Machavalian conspiracy to scare noobs or discredit red (depending on the author).

5) Warning when shooting film you can't just start editing it you'll need to get it processed and run it through a telecine or scan in order to have a working digital file to bring into Avid or FCP.

How about this one

99) When skiing out of bounds always check the snow pack to assess avalanche risk and always ski with a buddy. If possible carry avalanche beacons otherwise you may become buried and suffocate.

OMG! Gavin is trying to scare everyone away from skiing out of bounds so that he has all the snow to himself! He's also trying to make skiing sound way more dangerous than it actually is! Burn him! He's a witch!
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Some good info. in that article..he's warning people..not discouraging people.
At the end he says go out there and shoot.

The next revolution in filmmaking is upon us, however, I fear and it is my prediction that a lot of small indi-productions are about to get burned.
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If this happens it's ok..this is how people will learn.
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
It sounds to me like Ryan Walters is trying to scare people away from making the change because his workflow is about to become much more accessible.
Click to expand...

I didn't get that impression at all. It seemed like he just wanted people to be aware of what shooting in RAW entails.
 
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