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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet S35 is now...

A stock Volkswagen that gets a Lamborghini engine is no longer a Volkswagen even if it looks like one. The guts of this camera have changed, either through evolution or revolution and it no longer exists in the form it was intended to be two years ago. Maybe Jim should build the Epic B for "Basic"?
 
Is there something wrong with just EPIC and EPIC-X? :cheers2:

:beatdeadhorse5: :emote_hanged:
 
Robert Frank said:
Is there something wrong with just EPIC and EPIC-X? :cheers2:

:beatdeadhorse5: :emote_hanged:
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Ever walk into a burger joint and order a hamburger only to have the McGenius ask if you want cheese on it?

To answer the question; No. There's nothing wrong with vanilla, but I like Rocky Road too.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
Begin Rant:

Everybody is crying about the possibility of the "Scarlet S35" slipping away beyond your price range. What was the plan for having enough money to buy accessories for it in the first place? You have to have more than just the brain to get a shootable rig. Aren't we putting the cart before the horse here just a bit?

Honestly, it makes perfect sense to price the new Epic S appropriately for its market and feature set. If I had saved ONLY enough for the Scarlet S35, I'd put that money on a Fixed lens Scarlet 2/3rd's and punch a hole in the sky with the money I'd have left over- all of it going on the screen in beautiful, pristine 2K digital projection.

If an MX'd Red One is $25,000 and a 5K Epic X is $28,000+modules ($35,000 approx), anyone thinking you're going to get a camera that sits firmly between these two in capability for $8,000+ ($15,000) is crazy. Sure, when it was a stripped down 35mm box it made sense-- but the product evolved to a point that put it very close to the EPIC X. That can't be a cheap trick to pull off.

But the big besides here is: If you see the Scarlet Fixed as somehow limiting to your toolset as a filmmaker because its not "35mm" then what does that really say about your plans and your skills? If you can't make compelling cinema with the Scarlet Fixed then you have a deficit of creativity and skill that no 35mm camera will ever make up for.

End Rant...

Jim, love the new nomenclature.
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Answer...

Jannard said:
We have just made a number of final changes to our program. It has become clear that our competition is finally paying attention to what we are doing so this time we will NOT announce what the changes are.

I will say the following:

1. No negative price/performance changes.
2. Only positive feature and system changes.
3. No additional slip to the target schedule.

If our competition is shooting at us, they will be shooting at where we were and not where we are going to be.

Speculation is dangerous because people post what they think or hope and others read it as fact. Just know that every time we change something, it gets better.

See you in Las Vegas.

Jim
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Elsie N said:
Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...
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Yes I know it's a long time ago and I still expect prices to increase, but when did Jim first use that phrase anyway. I just think it's fun to see what was being told, not so long ago...
 
Jeff Coatney said:
This camera goes way beyond a re-branding. While the final, official details may be conjectural, the stated details from Red indicate a feature set that will be nearer to Epic X than the previous Scarlet S35 specs.
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I must've missed where Red confirmed that Epic-S will have specs closer to Epic-X's than the previous Scarlet S35 specs, which were only sketchy at best.

Jeff Coatney said:
A stock Volkswagen that gets a Lamborghini engine is no longer a Volkswagen even if it looks like one. The guts of this camera have changed, either through evolution or revolution and it no longer exists in the form it was intended to be two years ago. Maybe Jim should build the Epic B for "Basic"?
Click to expand...
Volkswagen (both car and manufacturer) is obviously completely different from Lamborghini. When Red rebranded the Scarlet S35, nothing changed at that point but the name -- it didn't go back to the drawing board. And although it may have languished for a while when Red was concentrating on Epic-X and Scarlet 3K, as of November 2009 it was $7K: "Scarlet S35- $7000 (Brain only) . . . More details sometime" (link). Of course, Red is capable of haphazardly publishing something and then forgetting about it (#21, anyone?), but in this case I think Scarlet S35 was intended to be be revamped to the same degree as Scarlet 3K, was tentatively priced at $7K, but was accorded a lower priority than the first two cameras scheduled to go out the door, Epic-X and Scarlet 3K. And then Red forgot about publishing the details. I must admit not reading these boards exhaustively, but I don't recall any massive overhaul mentioned for Scarlet S35/Epic-S.

The confirmed addition of HDRx alone requires a baseline increase in frame rates just to function.
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Although its inclusion is all but certain, has HDRx in fact been officially confirmed for Epic-S? [Edit: Yes, it has. Thanks to Steve Das for posting confirmation.] And isn't the function of $1,000 additional board to increase the processing power (including higher data and frame rates) sufficiently for Epic-S to do HDRx? Or are there additional changes -- and price increases -- necessary to get it to work?

I'll stand on my comments. But, please, Lawrence, let's not use "straw man" arguments.
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Not a straw-man argument at all. I just said that if no one found 35-mm sensor cameras necessary, Red wouldn't need to make them. There are obviously real reasons to use -- and even require -- a 35-mm sensor. It's up to the individual to make that decision.

Can a blockbuster be made with smaller sensors and prosumer or even commodity consumer gear? Sure, it's been done, but mostly by artistic choice, not by economic necessity. Have great films been made by those constrained to use lesser, even inferior equipment? Again, sure. And while filmmaking is full of compromises, the goal is to minimize or eliminate them where possible. But Red's about choices, not compromises. And if I said I wanted or needed X feature set in a camera, I'd be offended by anyone who didn't know me who glibly impugned my skill set.
 
Scott, if we're looking for ways to define Epic models (and we clearly are), this makes a lot of sense.
Epic E speaks of Origin, as does Epic S. If one were to simply ask for an Epic when there are 3 or more models... Let me spell it out for you:

Epic S
Epic E
Epic M
 
Jannard said:
.. As long as everyone understands that we really are trying to push the industry along and deliver meaningful cameras with the most capability at the best price possible, I can live with some disappointment out there.Jim
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http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=660621#post660621

The big difference between the two is processing power inside the camera. That means frame rates and REDCODE capabilities. EPIC has
every capability. Scarlet does not. EPIC has all the "hard stuff".

We have to look at S35 pricing since we are adding capability (HDRx).Jim
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Too many here are freaking on the price of this standard Epic.
What might have happened is that it cost more than the $1,000
to add HDRx as the S35 sensor is couple times bigger than the 2/3.
So maybe it costs couple thousand more..who knows..we have to
wait.

But don't worry there is no collusion going on between rental houses and
Epic owners to protect Epic X and to deny Indies shooting S35. But
there are some weird posts here coming off like jealous kids on Christmas
who seem happy that standard Epic is being raised in price.

Probably makes little difference to Red if they sell 50/50 division of Epic versions or it's 90/10.
They are trying to make the best cameras at the best price as quoted above.
Sony has thrown a S35 out there and you can assume Red will be competitive price wise with it.
 
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This discussion may seem to be about what letters to use. But isn't it more about the viewpoint one has?

Viewpoint 1:
The baseline EPIC is a standard EPIC model with all the trademark EPIC feature set with a target user group of (let's say) indie filmmakers and the EPIC-X (or next level up) is a beefed up version of this standard model for big productions, rental houses etc.

Viewpoint 2:
The baseline EPIC is a "stripped-down" version of the EPIC-X, given its Scarlet beginnings.

It'd be great if Jim/RED were to clarify the viewpoint they are coming from. My hope is they are coming from Viewpoint 1.

Why start off the EPIC with the connotation of it being "stripped down" to an outsider point of view, even though we may all agree the feature set is beyond anything we ever dreamed of?

The EPIC-X will then (as an example) be a much beefier version in all ways and as a result, has more advanced features.

Ofcourse, we all know that all of this is RED's prerogative ultimately, but I hope our discussion has proven to be of some use to them.

Thanks,
Nikhil
 
Bill Anderson said:
Scott, if we're looking for ways to define Epic models (and we clearly are), this makes a lot of sense.
Epic E speaks of Origin, as does Epic S. If one were to simply ask for an Epic when there are 3 or more models... Let me spell it out for you:

Epic S
Epic E
Epic M
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I didn't suggest that it made no sense, just that it was funny; spelled h-u-m-o-r. Get some. :smile5:
 
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