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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet S35 is now...

I get worried (probably unnecessarily) every time someone suggests cancelling the fixed-lens Scarlet. Personally I have no need for zooming in and out and ideally I would stick with a normal prime lens for 99.9% of the footage I need to get, but I'm also on a budget. I am literally devoting 2011 to making the money for my first project with Scarlet (two fixed-lens units and various accessories plus storage and a monster editing rig and so on), and if the affordable fixed-lens Scarlet isn't going to be on offer, I will either have to make twice the money (so twice the delay) or settle for just one camera, which would limit my creative options significantly.

So to everyone who insists a cheap camera can't be professional… shove off! I want the impossible—professional features at an affordable price—and last I heard, RED is the only camera company that specializes in the impossible. I don't want that to change!

But I'm not too worried… the fixed-lens is for sure, right?
 
Leo Ticheli said:
Flame-proof suit: Check.
My assumptions are that the two cameras are physically identical, and the only difference is a couple of boards. How much difference can that really make in the price?...

And... what happens to the value of a Red One? I can guess, and it's not pretty.

I think it's quite the juggling act; price Epic-Lite cheap enough so those who can't justify a full Epic can afford it, but not so cheap to make the "full" Epic a foolish buy.
Leo
Click to expand...

At the second Red day Jannard said that the difference in price of the
Epic camera was solely the result of the horsepower required to shoot
high frame rates and data rates. End of story.

As for what happens to the value of a Red One. Who knows the market
determines this...but we know the cost of progress isn't pretty.
A rental house is selling SR3's for $9,000 and Arri III's for $7,000
and that's w/ mags and bunch of stuff. Nobody has to cry for
those cameras...they had their day in the sun.

But..boy in referring to a full Epic as a foolish buy..??? If you even
thought that for a second..why on earth buy it..nobody forces you to.
In fact I just convinced someone to move up to Epic based solely on
the money he would save in frame rates. The number he would save
was astronomical...and you only pay the Epic premium once.
 
Leo Ticheli said:
I don't really understand the concept behind "developing" a "Scarlet" S35 in the first place. Quote marks because whatever the "lite" version turns out to be, it's really just a crippled Epic. ...

My assumptions are that the two cameras are physically identical, and the only difference is a couple of boards. How much difference can that really make in the price? Is it really significant? ...

Am I correct that the Epic-Lite will be superior to the Red One? Wow. Why spring for the big-bad Epic? Just for high frame-rates? A lot of people never over-crank. And... what happens to the value of a Red One? I can guess, and it's not pretty.

I think it's quite the juggling act; price Epic-Lite cheap enough so those who can't justify a full Epic can afford it, but not so cheap to make the "full" Epic a foolish buy. I imagine Rental houses could provide the answer as they know what happens to even slightly less capable models when more capable cameras are available for only slightly higher rates.

I can much more easily see the case for a 2/3" Scarlet as it's the equivalent to offering 35MM & 16MM film cameras and a smaller sensor is an advantage for many kinds of work. I'm not crazy about any camera with a fixed lens, however. Again, I don't get it, especially from a company that is committed to selling only "professional" cameras.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
Click to expand...

I think Leo is closest to the true reason for changing Scarlet's name. It should be called Epic because it is not being developed separately. Initially the product was meant to be drastically different but that is no longer the case. It is in essence the same; same form factor, same accessories and the same tech, just less of it.

Is taking out the boards really significant? I know this has been discussed, but the Epic is a hand held computer. If you take a mother board with one of two multicore processors out of your computer, then pull out the turbo graphics card to substitute a basic one then yes, you bet the savings can be significant.

He also makes an interesting observation about a fixed lens kit. In a consumer business model that makes sense, but where does that fit in a pro line-up? Is it an ENG model? Higher end ENG cams have interchangeable lens mounts. Would an Epic ENG not want to be a top end kit? Perhaps it is my assumption that is wrong.
 
Scarlet 8X Fixed is nearly done. I like it. So does everyone here.

Jim
 
Leo Ticheli said:
I don't really understand the concept behind "developing" a "Scarlet" S35 in the first place. Quote marks because whatever the "lite" version turns out to be, it's really just a crippled Epic. Since the lesser camera resulted from the Epic, not the other way around, why spend development funds to create something less capable than the superior camera you've already invented? I can understand working to improve a product, but not to lessen it.

My assumptions are that the two cameras are physically identical, and the only difference is a couple of boards. How much difference can that really make in the price? Is it really significant? Considering the price of a complete shooting package with all accessories, power, support, etc. - and lenses, just how much is saved by purchasing an Epic-Lite? And, more importantly, why on earth would anyone take such a short term savings over the considerable down-side?

Am I correct that the Epic-Lite will be superior to the Red One? Wow. Why spring for the big-bad Epic? Just for high frame-rates? A lot of people never over-crank. And... what happens to the value of a Red One? I can guess, and it's not pretty.

I think it's quite the juggling act; price Epic-Lite cheap enough so those who can't justify a full Epic can afford it, but not so cheap to make the "full" Epic a foolish buy. I imagine Rental houses could provide the answer as they know what happens to even slightly less capable models when more capable cameras are available for only slightly higher rates.

I can much more easily see the case for a 2/3" Scarlet as it's the equivalent to offering 35MM & 16MM film cameras and a smaller sensor is an advantage for many kinds of work. I'm not crazy about any camera with a fixed lens, however. Again, I don't get it, especially from a company that is committed to selling only "professional" cameras.

OK, it's just my opinion; I'm eagerly awaiting Stage 3, so I'm committed to Red & Epic, I'm just not too crazy about the Epic-Lite idea.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
Click to expand...
Leo, I tried to find out if the form factor would be the same as the Epic. Never got an answer. If it is smaller than the Epic, that is, as previously announced for the Scarlet, and if it is half the price or less than the Epic, that makes it pretty attractive to me. I say that even knowing that many of the bells and whistles and chrome that will be on the Epic, will be left off the E-Light.
 
cool:-) will preparing for production follow the same timeline as epic?
 
Steve Das said:
But..boy in referring to a full Epic as a foolish buy..??? If you even
thought that for a second..why on earth buy it..nobody forces you to.
In fact I just convinced someone to move up to Epic based solely on
the money he would save in frame rates. The number he would save
was astronomical...and you only pay the Epic premium once.
Click to expand...

Please! I did NOT say the Full Epic was a foolish buy! However, it could be if the capability of the Epic-Lite is very close to the Full Epic and the price difference is wide and if your shooting situation does not require the extras offered by the Full Epic. If..

I'll catch all the petrol bombs tossed at me for what I actually say; don't like it when I'm misquoted.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Jannard said:
Scarlet 8X Fixed is nearly done. I like it. So does everyone here.

Jim
Click to expand...

I actually LOVE the 2/3 Fixed SCARLETT and look forward to have several working at the new Studios and in every single Project we do,
both Motion Picture work as well as Commercials and Photography work
so perfect for much more, but for us it will be our tool of choice to follow every step of our Epic cameras in the BTS ;)

Btw, many yet have to really realize how small it is, and some of the
pictures seem to portrait the Zoom lens pretty big, but it is not, and super comfortable to hold, can't wait ;)
 
Duh, 331 replies later and I have to re-read the thread title.

So 8x has a drastically different form factor and remains Scarlet. I get it now.
 
In case you guys missed it, this was shot with a Scarlet 8X Fixed.

33697_443314105414_625665414_5502832_6647853_n.jpg
 
Leo Ticheli said:
Please! I did NOT say the Full Epic was a foolish buy! However, it could be if the capability of the Epic-Lite is very close to the Full Epic and the price difference is wide and if your shooting situation does not require the extras offered by the Full Epic. If..

I'll catch all the petrol bombs tossed at me for what I actually say; don't like it when I'm misquoted.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
Click to expand...

I don't like to misquote people...and don't believe I did..at all.

Come on you know that Red does not "disable" their cameras.
Even the fixed lens Scarlet will have HDRx.

By moving Scarlet S35 up to Epic in name...you can guess
that they will increase both it's features and cost. At that
point everyone will have to decide on their own what is
their best option and what would be a foolish buy for their
economic and shooting situation. If one never shoots at high
frame rates then...yes..the full Epic might in fact be a foolish
buy in comparison to other options that Red offers.

And since Red has spent like a full year and a half working (i.e.
paying engineers full time to work on stuff) on
Epic beyond when the price was announced...with so far no
increase in price announced for it. One might bet that any
Epic light price increase will be reasonable for it's intended market.
 
Brandon J.F. said:
In case you guys missed it, this was shot with a Scarlet 8X Fixed.

33697_443314105414_625665414_5502832_6647853_n.jpg
Click to expand...

I forgot to notice something..
if this image was shot using any DSLR camera it would suffer from severe aliasing and moire..
that's a very intelligent tease image..
the dress and couch details on the left.. wow..
can't we have a higher res version.. I think we are close to shipping.. we should start seeing hi res images..
 
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