Scarlet S35 is now...

[Jaime Vallés]

Smart move as to not confuse the general public on 4 different kinds of Scarlets... :thumbsup:

Exactly. Always felt that the S35 or bigger sensors should carry the Epic name, and the 2/3" sensors should be the Scarlet.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

called EPIC Light. The features have changed as has the price. I'll update in the next two weeks.

Jim

makes total sense. the s35 always was just a "slow" version of the epic.
good choice!

...although "light" ? come on, you can do cooler than that

or why not just EPIC S ??? for SuperSaverOption, Small , Slim , "S-aves you money" (even "slow-er" would fit - ok, no marketing deathsentences allowed) or in my case "smartass"

cheers!

 

[Jared Caldwell]

No.

That was helpful. Thanks.

Only Red Team can tell us what is possible, but maybe an S35 body could have less boards, less framerates than 2/3", still including HDRx @3k?

The Scarlet line could be associated with 3k resolution (it was originally 3k for $3k, after all). Epic 5k+? :}

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

When I think about these cameras, their capabilities, what the competition is doing, the laws of supply and demand,... I'm still scratching my head thinking how or why would they ever price something as capable as an S35 Epic Light as cheap as $15k.

I guess I'll believe it when I see it actually for sale but from a business perspective I just can't see why RED would sell Epic Lights for $15k. It seems the demand is high enough, if they could get more for them, why the hell wouldn't they get more.

I think the way these will be made, will have a ceiling on the number of cams that can be made in a given period. It doesn't make any sense that they would try and sell these at discount prices. People will pay for them!

Did you see how many people are instantly on board with a hand built, machined Epic?

I agree. I thought the same thing when the released the specs of the S35 Scarlet versus the Epic.
But - and this is of course considering the possibility IF there is a price hike, which nobody is for certain yet, or how much - if you have been living for a year or more with the idea "when it's finished I'll be able to buy an S35 Red Camera for 7-8k (brain only") then it hurts to have a potentially big price hike just at the finishing line.
Just last weekend I had someone ask me for a camera buying advice, and he was thinking about an Panasonic AF-100. I made a pages-long email in which I talked about an S35 Scarlet being a little bit more expensive, but a much much better package. But even the price like it is now is already a little bit above the financial limit of a lot of Scarlet-buyers. Hiking it again, will potentially let people out of the game. Of course this is RED's right as a company, but to have it happen after 2 years, just before the release is at least a bitter pill to swallow.

If it needs to be done, it needs to be done. I know RED has a more then fair price policy - and I won't judge them badly if they put a big price hike on S35 Scarlet - even if it means I won't be able to buy one.
Just saying that it hurts for people who have been on the fence for 1-2 years. I know it's a company and not a charity, and I would be already amazed if they don't loose money on certain products.
But, like a couple of people already mentioned: people were already MORE then pleased with the feature set of the S35 Scarlet like it is now. You can keep making a product better and more expensive, but don't forget that all the people who jumped on board of the Scarlet wagon were - for the most part - people who couldn't afford a Red One.
Yes, an S35 Scarlet, with a couple of modules is a better camera than a RED One, which is already amazingly priced. So yes, why not?
Well, because a lot of people have invested a lot of energy, waiting time, hoping, looking out for, maybe even money in an S35 package that was in their financial league. Everything is subject to change, I know.
But don't forget that people have been waiting for... 2 years now? (I forgot), for Scarlets.

I do like the idea of maybe then having a cheaper production-ready package, which could make the camera still a financial possiblity, considering that everyone had to pack some modules to have a basic system. If you could have a production package for 12k or something, it would still be in the 'normal' S35 package price of before. Jim is the only one with the knowledge, the rights and the possibilities to choose about these things. Ultimately, it's his money, his achievement, and we are all lucky to have someone like that pushing the industry forward.
We'll see, I guess.

 

[Sean Lee]

Scarlet S35 becomes Epic Light... Could we possibly get a cheaper S35 camera with some boards taken out @ 3k resolution?

I was hoping for this also. With a number of other companies jumping on the large sensor bandwagon, it would make sense for Red to produce at least an affordable similarly-priced S35-sized camera. 2/3 is kind of a step backward from where the DSLR sensor 'revolution' is heading (notwithstanding the 3K & higher tech involved of course).

 

[Tom.Wong]

to say "is now" does this mean the "Epic Light" is slated to release with Epic-X production models side by side, or to release after stage 2 is fulfilled? or it's coming out months later, late spring/summer. Would be nice to get a little more accurate intention behind the statement as this is quite the year for decisions in camera packages and people have a lot to consider right now. Very exciting times indeed...

 

[Auguste Andre]

called EPIC Light. The features have changed as has the price...

Jim

Well, I think me and my partners we go on the Panasonic or Sony route from now on. "Thanks" Mr. Jannard.

 

[Jared Caldwell]

I was hoping for this also. With a number of other companies jumping on the large sensor bandwagon, it would make sense for Red to produce at least an affordable similarly-priced S35-sized camera. 2/3 is kind of a step backward from where the DSLR sensor 'revolution' is heading (notwithstanding the 3K & higher tech involved of course).

I think there is a big need for a 2/3" camera, and I think the 2/3" brain is going to be badass. I am just curious what kind of branding Red is trying to create with these product lines.

Originally, Red started the Scarlet line to make professional cinema available to anyone, even if that meant a consumer price. Things change, and Red got out of the volume market. I totally understand the reasoning.

The Scarlet line has had both 3k and 5k resolutions, which were intended for cinema finish formats (not consumer). Red has refined it's stance somewhat to say that 1080p isn't good enough (I agree). Yet we still have 3k Scarlets (aimed at 2k finish, but more easily uprezed to 4k finish than 1080p cameras could).

I guess my question is in regards to 3k. Should 3k only be considered acceptable for 2/3" models? Is 3k still considered professional according to Red? If there is nothing wrong with 3k, why can't we also have a 3k in an S35 body (if it can indeed be made for cheaper to fit into more budgets)?

Regardless of a of the changes, one thing still stands: professional quality for professionals.

Professional is now defined as "those who dream big". Well, I am stepping up. I am dreaming big. I have been working for the past couple of months on structuring my business plan, and I am starting a small business to allow me to generate income to "man up" and buy into Red and pursue filmmaking full time. The dream is there, the balls have been grown, and I am putting action behind it. I just hope that taking these steps will allow me to afford something in the s35 range from Red. I understand consumer prices are out the window, but is Red still trying to create professional products for professionals...at a high end prosumer/low end professional (e.g. DVXUser/ScarletUser) price? Could an s35 3k option allow for a more affordable option for us young dreamers?

I love what we have have going on here. I know that sorting out these kinds of issues will cause growing pains. I am just throwing it out there right now. :}

 

[Sean Lee]

the balls have been grown

wtf haha, I was reading your post with interest and in full agreement up until that point.

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

Perhaps the name Light refers to this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Light_shining2.JPG

13.750 and up will make it more expensive then the original Red One.

 

[Jared Caldwell]

wtf haha, I was reading your post with interest and in full agreement up until that point.

Grow a pair, then. Hahaha :}

 

[Robert Frank]

called EPIC Light. The features have changed as has the price. I'll update in the next two weeks.

Jim

I hate to say it but Light sounds too much like, uh, Lite. How about this naming convention Jim?


EPIC (Standard EPIC) formerly Scarlet S35.

EPIC-X (Expanded EPIC).

EPIC-LTD (Limited Production, hand machined and assembled body and select accessories, signed by Jim Jannard) which is now the Pre-Production EPIC-M.

 

[Pierre T.]

Changed price ...

Changed price ...

The features have changed as has the price.

price "changed", hmmm? I can guess which way (and that I won't like that change).

How about an "EPIC zero" then, with the old features and the old price?!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ha ha, I called it first

Sanjin laid it out, but the first indication that there would be a restructuring of the S35 product line was in that early morning discussion with Jim a couple of weeks ago when I asked him if there was enough of a distinction between the Epic S35 and the Scarlet S35. His response was that they may rethink the pricing.

Searching is disabled now but I'll link the posts when it's back.

IAN SUN,

sorry I didn't read your post.

Also my predictions and analysis are based on another info and material.

Hope this helps for a better understanding.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Lol maybe people who think that Epic Light sounds too sissy should just man up and get an Epic X?

Okay, I kid... I kid! :smilielol5:

Does "Coors Light" sound more sissy than "Coors"? Not to me.

 

[Lee Saxon]

What is this obsession with the naming convention? They can call it bligitybloo two for all I care. I want to know the PRICE.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

"That's a BINGO !"

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Considering the S2/3" saw about a 30-40% price increase for HDRx I hope that's the price range change for S35. $7k -> $10k.

 

[Ash Worth]

Fantastic. Epic was the camera I wanted but knew I couldn't justify. EPIC light will be just right.
RED should scrap the Scarlet concept, they are a professional camera company that should focus on professional tools. Having so many prosumer units out there would lessen their brand and be a massive headache for tech support and firmware management.

 

[IAN SUN]

IAN SUN,

sorry I didn't read your post.

Also my predictions and analysis are based on another info and material.

Hope this helps for a better understanding.

I'm just having fun Sanjin ; )
You made a detailed prediction. I just asked a question.


Below is my take on the naming convention from the other thread.

"Also let me suggest for the S35 line- simply: EPIC L, to go along with EPIC X and EPIC M.
Keeps everything nice and consistent (and cool)."