Scarlet owners and their reactions this week

[Brian Merlen]

With all due respect, warranties suck. Go get insurance for your gear. I think the upgrade is awesome, and if you guys want to hold on to your old cameras and buy new ones go ahead. But stop bringing down the mood when most of us are happy with the updates. How much did you really lose going from Scarlet to Epic to Dragon? Like a couple grand while having a camera for how many years or months? Go try that with a rental house, this deals good as it gets folks

 

[steve duncan]

You keep avoiding the fact that for 9950 you get 5K 60 FPS 2000 ISO clean 16.5+ stops of DR and improved color science. You dont need to pay 19K and you get all the benefits except 6K.

true, you're totally right... i guess i had in my mind to get to the full Dragon. and to get there, 19K is expensive. i just wonder how much the company really made putting those upgrade prices 60% higher.... if you assume that scares away 30% of potential upgraders. i wonder if it amounts to that much, and how much they would've really solidified themselves in the hearts of RED users if they kept it to 6K for an epic upgrade, and 12k to get from Scarlet to Epic Dragon. Not to mention all the outsiders that would've thought to buy in at any price now, as the camera company to own

 

[Adam J. Craig]

I'll probably go the epic route. I've gotten a bit tired of scarlet owners being second banana. The dragon can come later for me... If the epic was good enough for the industry 2 weeks ago, it'll do today.

 

[Carlos Reyes]

true, you're totally right... i guess i had in my mind to get to the full Dragon. and to get there, 19K is expensive. i just wonder how much the company really made putting those upgrade prices 60% higher.... if you assume that scares away 30% of potential upgraders. i wonder if it amounts to that much, and how much they would've really solidified themselves in the hearts of RED users if they kept it to 6K for an epic upgrade, and 12k to get from Scarlet to Epic Dragon. Not to mention all the outsiders that would've thought to buy in at any price now, as the camera company to own

19K for me way too expensive as well. If that was my only option I'd be pretty bummed. But what I get for 9950 is hard to pass up, and really has all the benefits I want, hell 4K has been amazing for me 5K will be a treat for years to come. I wasnt expecting a scarlet dragon so I'm stoked.

I'll probably go the epic route. I've gotten a bit tired of scarlet owners being second banana. The dragon can come later for me... If the epic was good enough for the industry 2 weeks ago, it'll do today.

What epic always had on the Scarlet was the HFR, if scarlet dragon is getting 60FPS at 5K whatever its gonna get at 4K and 3K will be more than enough for me. I cant justify paying twice as much for 6K. The good thing is we have choices.

 

[Brett Harrison]

I'll probably go the epic route. I've gotten a bit tired of scarlet owners being second banana. The dragon can come later for me... If the epic was good enough for the industry 2 weeks ago, it'll do today.

that might be rational, but the fact is that the market is not rational (or pseudo rational) and post-NAB, the Epic will not look the same to renters.

In my experience, customers who aren't camera nerds don't respond that much to 4K and 5K and 6K, they look at the movies shot on the camera and think only about the image quality (as in all attributes taken together).

There might be a funny period there where Scarlet-D suffers from its second-fiddle reputation but in the end, that 6K/5K aspect will be much of a muchness for certain renters (esp. ones who aren't renting from a big-business rental house).

my 2c

 

[Daniel Pearson]

that might be rational, but the fact is that the market is not rational (or pseudo rational) and post-NAB, the Epic will not look the same to renters.

In my experience, customers who aren't camera nerds don't respond that much to 4K and 5K and 6K, they look at the movies shot on the camera and think only about the image quality (as in all attributes taken together).

There might be a funny period there where Scarlet-D suffers from its second-fiddle reputation but in the end, that 6K/5K aspect will be much of a muchness for certain renters (esp. ones who aren't renting from a big-business rental house).

my 2c

As a Scarlet owner I do wonder which will have more pull for a producer. A Red Epic (MX) or a Red Dragon (Scarlet). The Scarlet Dragon will have a superior image to the Epic MX, however Epic has a name as a top tier camera, will producers/clients care if it is Dragon or not, so long as it is an Epic? Conversely, will producers only care that it is the latest Red Dragon (and not so much that it a Scarlet Dragon and not an Epic Dragon).

 

[Brett Harrison]

As a Scarlet owner I do wonder which will have more pull for a producer. A Red Epic (MX) or a Red Dragon (Scarlet). The Scarlet Dragon will have a superior image to the Epic MX, however Epic has a name as a top tier camera, will producers/clients care if it is Dragon or not, so long as it is an Epic? Conversely, will producers only care that it is the latest Red Dragon (and not so much that it a Scarlet Dragon and not an Epic Dragon).

Perhaps: '5K Red Dragon (Scarlet)'.
Best thing one can do is shoot some stuff with it to demonstrate its power and whack that on your marketing package.

 

[Mike Garrick]

As a producer I can tell you most will only remember the "Dragon" bit .................. 5k or 6k well yeh ......cough ..cough.

 

[Nick Mahar]

I think the biggest question is if you can jump from Scarlet Dragon, to Epic Dragon for 9500 later or even at all. If not, you would be screwing yourself if you got a Scarlet Dragon and couldn't upgrading to Epic Dragon without paying up the ass.

 

[Zane Pearson]

I think the biggest question is if you can jump from Scarlet Dragon, to Epic Dragon for 9500 later or even at all. If not, you would be screwing yourself if you got a Scarlet Dragon and couldn't upgrading to Epic Dragon without paying up the ass.

Hey Nick, I already posted about this earlier. My bomb squad rep told me that "at this stage" there's no plans to offer a Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon upgrade and if your endgoal is to have an Epic Dragon I was advised to go for the Epic upgrade path... Of course this could change in the future as we all know "everything changes"

 

[Noel R.]

At this point I feel Scarlet Dragon is the way to go. If we can shoot 5K at 60fps (which is nice) we can certainly get enough frame rate overcranking at 4K for those times we want to overcrank. Shooting 5K vs 6K doesn't bother me a bit, at this point I'd much rather work with 5K files. I feel working with 6K files is going to be a big issue in terms of computer hardware, rendering, transcoding, storage, image circle, lenses, and the need for a REDRocket X. You may need to replace a lot more than the camera if you want to play nice with 6K files. I feel it's perfectly suited for an A-Cam. If we can do 5K at 60fps, I'm almost certain the Scarlet Dragon can do 25fps at 6K if RED allows it. Which will be awesome.

 

[Brett Harrison]

At this point I feel Scarlet Dragon is the way to go. If we can shoot 5K at 60fps (which is nice) we can certainly get enough frame rate overcranking at 4K for those times we want to overcrank. Shooting 5K vs 6K doesn't bother me a bit, at this point I'd much rather work with 5K files. I feel working with 6K files is going to be a big issue in terms of computer hardware, rendering, transcoding, storage, image circle, lenses, and the need for a REDRocket X. You may need to replace a lot more than the camera if you want to play nice with 6K files. I feel it's perfectly suited for an A-Cam. If we can do 5K at 60fps, I'm almost certain the Scarlet Dragon can do 25fps at 6K if RED allows it. Which will be awesome.

A good perspective. Get the Dragon-S and make 20K with it.

That's how I would think of my new camera, a 'Dragon-S' - because it's a new camera effectively, with 2 years of R and D from RED.

 

[Mike McMillin]

As a Scarlet owner yea I am anxious to see whats going to happen with Scarlet dragon (one of the main reasons I bought the camera was its "Future Proof"), I made some money with my Scarlet this year, It has been great I love the camera, Im bummed to see so many of you talking shit. Were all losing money the second we buy any camera these days... Shouldn't we all know that by now?. Im sure BMCC are great as well, just not for me. Kind of messing up my market a little bit but hey whatever. Im hoping if everyone on this forum doesn't end up on Jim's shit list maybe he will help us Scarlet owners. None of us know how much the upgrade or what specs are going to be right? Or am I just missing something?

 

[dio Zafi]

I'M SO CONFUSED...I HAVE TO WAIT TO THE END OF THE MONTH TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO

 

[Kerson Raymond]

It was actually a joke..since most scarlet (Not all ) want to jump ship for the BMC.... BM doesn't offer slo-mo... and my other concern with BMC is that they're still TRYING to fulfill orders from last year.. By the time you get your hands on their S35 version... a new one will be announced. But for he record..I am looking for another Scarlet...

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Steve - start a camera company. You can obviously do it better than RED, and they seem to be doing OK. And, according to you, it's an incredibly lucrative business as well. Just snare customers with some scam about a groundbreaking camera and, once you get them in your camp, you just gouge them with overpriced upgrades. Makes perfect sense. People are so stupid, and since they lack your superior analytical skills, they'll never catch on to what you are doing. Ha, it's genius.

 

[T.A. Franks]

It was actually a joke..since most scarlet (Not all ) want to jump ship for the BMC.... BM doesn't offer slo-mo... and my other concern with BMC is that they're still TRYING to fulfill orders from last year.. By the time you get your hands on their S35 version... a new one will be announced. But for he record..I am looking for another Scarlet...

Have you seen the slow motion on the Scarlet. It would have been smarter not to add it!

 

[Adam J. Craig]

Has there been any dragon footage posted yet?

 

[Christian Jadot]

I am super excited about the Dragon upgrade myself. Let's remember what was said when the Dragon was first announced.

That the Epic upgrade was going to cost around $6000
That the Scarlet upgrade was going to be about $3000 more because the processing board had to be replaced.

Red has done exactly what they said on this one for Scarlet users. (The Epic users had to pay more to replace the processing boards as well. My suspicions are Scarlet users are getting the old/unused Epic-X processors.) Me being a hobbyist that sometimes makes money see this as the last real upgrade I will need. (Well maybe the motion mount, but that can wait.) Without trying to make money, I have paid for the body and a battery. That is without much effort, in a crappy market! The dragon kills all the weaknesses of the Scarlet for indie film making. In all honesty the Scarlet-X is already more camera than most people can use. I am not looking for multiple cameras. (Alright, I will most likely pick up a Blackmagic Pocket Cam for a B-Cam.)

I thank RED for this, and could not be happier.

One question for the community, who knows more about the technical aspects of the camera. Can you record 5K at 24 fps on the 48 gb SSDs?



PS Until they release a Depth Mapping sensor. That will be an extreme break through in cinematic technology when it can be professionally used.

 

[Mike McMillin]

I am super excited about the Dragon upgrade myself. Let's remember what was said when the Dragon was first announced.

That the Epic upgrade was going to cost around $6000
That the Scarlet upgrade was going to be about $3000 more because the processing board had to be replaced.

Red has done exactly what they said on this one for Scarlet users. (The Epic users had to pay more to replace the processing boards as well. My suspicions are Scarlet users are getting the old/unused Epic-X processors.) Me being a hobbyist that sometimes makes money see this as the last real upgrade I will need. (Well maybe the motion mount, but that can wait.) Without trying to make money, I have paid for the body and a battery. That is without much effort, in a crappy market! The dragon kills all the weaknesses of the Scarlet for indie film making. In all honesty the Scarlet-X is already more camera than most people can use. I am not looking for multiple cameras. (Alright, I will most likely pick up a Blackmagic Pocket Cam for a B-Cam.)

I thank RED for this, and could not be happier.

One question for the community, who knows more about the technical aspects of the camera. Can you record 5K at 24 fps on the 48 gb SSDs?

I dont think anyone has ever put any official numbers to it yet