SCARLET MX worth in 2021

[PatrickWebb]

You're not wrong, Mike. I really dig the look from the MX sensor. In fact, I will be taking out the Epic today to shoot a super low budget music video with a Sankor 16c (2x Ana) on a Jupter-9 85mm adapted to EF. I will share some examples later on, if anyone is interested. We will see the results ... first time trying to double focus, so it should be, umm, time consuming.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

You're not wrong, Mike. I really dig the look from the MX sensor. In fact, I will be taking out the Epic today to shoot a super low budget music video with a Sankor 16c (2x Ana) on a Jupter-9 85mm adapted to EF. I will share some examples later on, if anyone is interested. We will see the results ... first time trying to double focus, so it should be, umm, time consuming.

Sounds like fun! I've been wanting to shoot 1.33x anamorphic on my scarlet. Its a bummer its anamorphic mode is only for 5k which as we all know, is limted from 1-12fps. I really wanted the epic but at the time i could purchase a body to start building upon i was about a grand short for the epics that were available at the time. The irony is the amount of money ive spent building my scarlet up over the last 2 months, i could have bought a DSMC2 body lol

 

[PatrickWebb]

Sounds like fun! I've been wanting to shoot 1.33x anamorphic on my scarlet. Its a bummer its anamorphic mode is only for 5k which as we all know, is limted from 1-12fps. I really wanted the epic but at the time i could purchase a body to start building upon i was about a grand short for the epics that were available at the time. The irony is the amount of money ive spent building my scarlet up over the last 2 months, i could have bought a DSMC2 body lol

You can technically shoot anamorphic on the scarlet, you just have to desqueeze it later in post. I've tried out the Sankor 16c on my Scarlet X and did exactly that in post and worked fine for me. Problem is, you are looking at a squeezed image on the screen. There might be a possibility to get an external monitor, via the HDMI or SDI and use the monitor, if it has that option, to do the desqueeze on screen. I know it is possible. Therefore you could technically shoot you 1.33x or 2x on the scarlet in 4K.

If you're to use a 58~60mm with the Scarlet, you could then get the full effect in 4K. I tested the Helios 44-2 as the taking lens for the sankor ana lens on the scarlet, on 4K and that gave me the full stretchy. It is a test by test game to get it working nicely. However, with a few extra bits it is possible to achieve. If you were to crop down to 3k mode on the scarlet, you might have to get a 50mm lens. I am not sure about that 100%, as I haven't tested that and I just sent back the Sankor – as it was a pain in the butt to focus and is no good in a professional setting ~ but for fun it produced amazing images! – however, by changing the perspective focal range to a wider lens, it is possible to work the anamorphic.

on the Epic with the 5K ana mode, I used the 85mm Jupiter and that was still getting the vignetting or haloing flares in the corners of the picture. I could have easily gone a 100mm (if I had one!) to try and overstep that little issue. However, it brought good results to the table. So, by working backwards on the frankenglass idea; smaller sensor, wider lens.

Looking at the Red Tools app and some ghetto math(excuse me if this becomes confusing!):
5K ANA with an 85mm has a Equivalent Focal Length of 115.5mm with a 1.36x crop factor (desqueezing the image gives us a 42.5mm focal length in width from the 85mm and then 1.36x that, gives us a 57.8mm EFL in Scope-terms)

so if we are to crop down to 4K and still use the ana-sankor-lens, you can try this out, by multiplying the focal legnth of the minimum usable FL on the 5K ana, which is 85mm (from my experience) ~ 85mm x (4K crop factor form 5K FF on the MX sensor) 1.25 = 106.25 mm ~ then 106.25 / 2 = 53.125 and that is the approximate minimum focal length you can use before you get the barrel in the image
-> so try a 55mm lens as the taking lens.

Here's where my math skills gets shady ~ if you wanted to get the higher frame rates, 3K is a 1.67x crop factor ~ (5K FF = 85mm) 85mm x 1.67 = 141.95 . Then 141.95 / 3 = 47.316 so then try a 48mm or more commonly 50mm lens as the taking lens. There you can get 48fps or 50fps in HD mode.

Now, I am not 100% on this equation, as I am no math-buff, but I have tested it out practically and it roughly works out. You also have to adjust the distance between the taking lens and the anamorphic lens, which can be trés tedious! However, if you have the patience and want to work it out to get the shot, it can be wonderfully fulfilling.

To amend your woes about the irony of your purchase: You would have spent much more on the modules for the DSMC2, if you were to go down that path. However, if you do upgrade the body, you can use the monitor via a lemo to DSMC2 adapter (adapter Lemo-b or a adapter, i think it is called???) so you can use at least the good old 5.0 Pro Touch with the new boxes. So, it is not a total steer of investment. Your media is also cheaper, unless you have the Mini Mag SSD module on your Scarlet? I have the MiniMag SSD module on my Epic, in case I were to one day buy into the DSMC2 (which would be a Helium Sensor btw), thus selling my Scarlet X with the 6 old 1.8" SSD mags I have. I can use the mini mags with the Epic and the DSMC2 boxes, which is handy.

I would look into an external monitor option for your scarlet that can do a desqueeze, if you want to get in to trying out some ana-goodness. From my several day experience, it is a lot of fun trying to frame your subject

 

[Eric Santiago]

If you do a search in the Scarlet section of the forum you might find some examples like this one:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?138816-Some-Test&highlight=anamorphic

Over the years I know some have ventured into it.
Maybe one day I will

 

[PatrickWebb]

If you do a search in the Scarlet section of the forum you might find some examples like this one:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?138816-Some-Test&highlight=anamorphic

Over the years I know some have ventured into it.
Maybe one day I will

Yeah, see, I thought at least another has done something. I would def try out some slow motion 48fps on a 24fps timeline in 3k with a 50mm ...

 

[Eric Santiago]

Yeah, see, I thought at least another has done something. I would def try out some slow motion 48fps on a 24fps timeline in 3k with a 50mm ...

That would be cool.
I had some fun times even at 1K HFR but mostly outdoor stuff.
Noisy as hell but heck it was fun.
Honestly, there are far better cameras for HFR and if it's a serious project then rent the right one.
But the Scarlet is not for that.
It can do other wonderful frames too

 

[PatrickWebb]

You're right, Eric. The Scarlet is well endowed for other operations. you know, at 3K and a good high quality compression, the image is very usable (just look at what Alex has shared before here). There you can get at least 1/2 time and that covers a good deal of most applications. I rarely use stabilisation in my work, unless I REALLY HAVE TO. That means I could easily work with 3K off the scarlet all the time, if in a pinch. As I have an Epic, I don't need to do that. But, there is no doubting that I could happily rely on the Scarlet to produce and deliver in those cases. I might even give it a go next time I'm out an about with the box in the forest with a model or musician. I know that the temperature here +20 degrees brings out all the hibernators to play ! So, the season is in gang and we're off to good time!

I've just finished off a music video today with the summer vibes, so that has kicked off the season for me! Pretty girls, horses, sunshine and the green Norwegian landscape ... not much can beat that for cliché happiness. I'll admit that I enjoyed every minute making the music video.

 

[Eric Santiago]

You're right, Eric. The Scarlet is well endowed for other operations. you know, at 3K and a good high quality compression, the image is very usable (just look at what Alex has shared before here). There you can get at least 1/2 time and that covers a good deal of most applications. I rarely use stabilisation in my work, unless I REALLY HAVE TO. That means I could easily work with 3K off the scarlet all the time, if in a pinch. As I have an Epic, I don't need to do that. But, there is no doubting that I could happily rely on the Scarlet to produce and deliver in those cases. I might even give it a go next time I'm out an about with the box in the forest with a model or musician. I know that the temperature here +20 degrees brings out all the hibernators to play ! So, the season is in gang and we're off to good time!

I've just finished off a music video today with the summer vibes, so that has kicked off the season for me! Pretty girls, horses, sunshine and the green Norwegian landscape ... not much can beat that for cliché happiness. I'll admit that I enjoyed every minute making the music video.

Looking forward to seeing that

Found some old pics of one short my Scarlet worked hard on:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/d1fAuib4g5xPL31x9

Screengrabs from a QT clip.
I can dig up actual R3D and you'd be surprised how much this look is the same as the RAW version due to great lighting work.
I worked with some amazing people on this one.

 

[PatrickWebb]

G'day guys,
Hope all are well!

Here is a couple of screen grabs from this project I was talking about: shot with the Epic-MX with a Jupiter-9 85mm as the taking lens for the Sankor 16c 2x anamorphic lens. A bit of a bodge job, but it gave me nice results. All shot on 5K ANA mode at 48fps on a 24fps timeline. Yes, i know it isn't the Scarlet, but, you know the sensor.

Still does alright, me thinks.

Some screen grabs in this thread ~ so not to double up: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?186600-Epic-MX-working-some-Anamorphic-goodness

Cheers

 

[Eric Santiago]

I love it!!
Have you tried that lens on the Scarlet?
I know you lose some quality but I'm curious.
Man those are beautiful frames

 

[PatrickWebb]

Hey Eric, Thanks, man! Appreciated.

Yeah, I have some test shots I took on the Scarlet, which I will get together tomorrow and post here.

There isn't as much "lost of quality" as you might think. The only difference is that the Epic can desqueese in camera and shoot well at 5K FF. I tested out this on the scarlet on 4K ~ squeezed and then just de[qz]ed it in post and it looked very nice. The resolution at 4K is just fine. The difference is that used the Helios 44-2 58mm instead to get the max out of it. If I were to get better speeds, I would crop down to 3K and then maybe use a 50mm of some description. But it work and works well. The big downfall for me, eventhough it isn't such a big deal, is the double focusing ~ it is tedious.

The rest is totally implore anyone out there to try it out. It's freaking fun and the results are Anamorphic!

 

[PatrickWebb]

I love it!!
Have you tried that lens on the Scarlet?
I know you lose some quality but I'm curious.
Man those are beautiful frames

Yes, I actually had some time now to share the test shots. Sorry for the low res screen shots, but you get the idea. I didn't have enough effort to pull the hi-res out of Davinci Resolve (as it was being difficult for some reason for the image export ~ so these screen grabs are from VLC :/ )

Excuse the vanity ... it is just a test.

Tech: Red Scarlet MX @ 4K with all the Helios 44-2 58mm as the taking lens and one as an example with the Carl Zeiss 50mm Classic ZE (at the bottom):

And this one is to exhibit the happenings of a wider angle lens @ 50mm set to 4K. This would be good for the 3K Crop.

I hope this helps !

UPDATE:
These were all DESQUEEZED in post ~ essentially I looked at the squeezed version on my monitor. I didn't have a monitor to do the 2x DSQ, as it was a test only for me. but you can work around that with 3rd party options through the SDI / HDMI ports, I'm certain.
Partly why I chose the Epic ~ just makes life a little easier. I mean, it was hard enough with the double focusing!

 

[PatrickWebb]

G'day all,
I hope everyone is good!

I am so happy that the warmer days are here!

Here are some grabs from some playing around I did today working with higher ISO's in the sunlight. I've been toying around with holding my highlight information better and filtering the lens whilst it is wideish open. I have been really astonished at the holding of that info in the R3D from the older MX sensor sitting in this scarlet X box. I was always a little shy of trying this on jobs until I had time to fully explore and understand it. Now that I feel that I have a pretty good idea how to pull off this method, I think I will apply it further.

Most, if not all of these grabs, were with the Scarlet-X set to 1250 ISO with the Jupiter-9 85mm wide open f2~3.5, around abouts, and then a variable ND to bring the exposure down to a good working image. I've experimented with this for the day and am pretty happy with how much detail is retained. Of course you are seeing just the edited images here. I have exported one ungraded one to see side-by-side. I did the simple grading in REDCINE-X PRO and exported the stills out of there.

Ungraded

Graded

This goes to show the flex of this camera and sensor and codec ... which is still on paar, if not better than some of the other options out there today.

That is of course my personal opinion.

Happy Summer everyone!

 

[rand thompson]

Patrick,

I like the look of your stills from the scarlet-X. I've never owned one and hadn't had much experience with the images that it produced.


Also I noticed you said you might have had issues with exporting stills from Resolve. Just in case you wanted to export stills from Resolve
which will give you much more grading capabilities than Redcine-X, here's an easy way to do it if you didn't already know.

1) Grab the still you want

2) "Right-Click" in the "Gallery" window to "Export"

3) Choose the Still Format you want to Export it in, the default is "DPX"

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Lovely images, Patrick. That sensor is gold. There is more than one ten year-old sensor which still holds its own today...

 

[PatrickWebb]

Patrick,

I like the look of your stills from the scarlet-X. I've never owned one and hadn't had much experience with the images that it produced.


Also I noticed you said you might have had issues with exporting stills from Resolve. Just in case you wanted to export stills from Resolve
which will give you much more grading capabilities than Redcine-X, here's an easy way to do it if you didn't already know.

1) Grab the still you want

2) "Right-Click" in the "Gallery" window to "Export"

3) Choose the Still Format you want to Export it in, the default is "DPX"

Hey Rand,

Thanks! Appreciated. It was a good old simple s-curve. Also, I feel details and textures really help keep things interesting.

Regarding the Davinci Resolve business, I do use it as my only NLE. Problem at the moment is that I am only getting black frames from it. I knew how to do the export before in the grading tab / stills capture. However, I have gotten some funky glitch that is giving me only black stills! Have you heard of this problem before?

1. My files and hdds are online;
2. Updated to the latest and greatest version;
3. this problem is happening with my R3D, XAVC, BRAW and even DNxHD codecs

... it is driving me up the wall, as I want to deliver a decent frames board to my clients and I have to grab those stills from either VLC or Redcine-X for the red files.

It just seems strange that it has started doing this to me since 2 months now.

 

[PatrickWebb]

Lovely images, Patrick. That sensor is gold. There is more than one ten year-old sensor which still holds its own today...

Thanks Karim, Indeed it is! I am getting more used to the MX sensor and I feel that each time it delivers a fine picture.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Oh, I've had the same problem. De-installation and a clean install helped

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I think 16 bit RAW is certainly an advantage over many other options on the market these days.

I'm currently trading for a Scarlet MX body EF mount with a 256 redmag, and RED 4.7in monitor. How much are these selling for these days? The one plus on this one is it only has 15 hours on the sensor and is in immaculate shape. The RED mag was also recently purchased so its virtually new.

Picking it up on Saturday so I am excited to see how the 16bit images compare to my Panasonic S1, in good lighting conditions obviously. Was originally gonna get a Komodo but its sold out everywhere and this body just fell into my lap.

Epic MX can be viable, but Scarlet MX struggles a bit compared to the competition. There's so many good options out there that cost way less. The problem isn't the camera body itself, it's the side gear that cost a fortune. I would say Komodo, Pocket 6K, or upcoming DSLRs are far more valuable options.

 

[PatrickWebb]

Epic MX can be viable, but Scarlet MX struggles a bit compared to the competition. There's so many good options out there that cost way less. The problem isn't the camera body itself, it's the side gear that cost a fortune. I would say Komodo, Pocket 6K, or upcoming DSLRs are far more valuable options.

I would agree here, Christoffer, purely on the point of the "side gear" and also the Scarlet's recording capabilities. Of course it struggles compared to the newer competition out there. Technically it is a deadweight to some people. Which it could well be. However, if you can forgo the disadvantages of the Scarlet-X and use it within its capabilities, it is a good camera still. I can confirm it from my side. The modules and extras alone, even on the 2nd-hand market can be costly. however, one can purchase it on the 2nd-hand market with a tonne of extra mods and bits for a fraction of the original cost.

Sometimes it can be purely up to budget criteria:
The Komodo still costs a good 80K NOK, as I'm based in Norway, and that is the base kit alone. To get that up and running it could cost anywhere up to 100K NOK. Not to say you cannot find it on the market with the bits for a cheaper price, but it is still a new product with ongoing support (which is what the DSMC1's don't have ~ another point to be made). Then the BMD 6K is a great camera, but you need to rig it up a little to get the full potential out of it. There you are looking at the BMD option at around 40~50K NOK for a decent setup. I've experienced that with the Pocket CC series over the years. Nevertheless, you can shoot out of the box with both Komodo and P4/6K but, you soon need more if you work on a weekly basis with the cameras ... like any camera, really.

I am not discrediting the value of any camera system here, but if one was looking strictly at budget and had 30-40K to spend, there is a tough argument in any ring there to be had. I got my Scarlet-X with the extra bits and bobs for 30K NOK and I am happy with it. I can use the modules and parts with my Epic-X and that the sensors are both MX was the reason for me to purchase it. Therefore I have 2 cameras that match for 2 cam jobs. However, this is strictly for my workflow too.

Maybe I could have spent that 30K on a Canon c100 mk2 or a 1Dx II, Or whatever is out there for the coin value equivalent. But I am not complaining. I see the value in the Scarlet-X for the strengths it can provide and acknowledge and understand where the weaknesses lie. When I feel that the weakness is met, then I jump over to my Epic-X and pretty much all of my shooting needs are met with this.