Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Fixed lens on Scarlet Interchangeable?

Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
So I can definitely see a wide angle converter in my future... IF the optical quality is up to scratch.
Click to expand...

Steve Gibby has mentioned this and expected Century/Schneider to have something worthy of pro use. This link to their .8 WA adapter for 2/3 broadcast lenses should give an idea of what to expect in terms of size, weight and price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...n_Optics_0WA_8XIF_20_WA_8XIF_20_0_8x_W_A.html

In fact, an adapter for the Fixed might need to be even bigger since its wide end is 7.5 mm and the linked adapter was made to work with a wide end of 8.5 mm.

So unless some manufacturer of quality optics finds a way around the laws of physics and economics, expect a large addition to budget and kit size. Someone asked why RED didn't make the wide end of the Fixed Zoom 6.5mm (actual) instead of 7.5mm. I'd guess there were 4 very good reasons: size, weight, price, and the laws of physics.
 
Last edited:
Derek S. said:
If fixed is wide enough for you, then why not go with it. Black Swan was shot mostly with 16mm, some scenes were shot with 12mm and 20mm.
Click to expand...
And even some was done with a DSLR (not advertising for another camera here).

Slightly switching topics: I think the quality of Scarlet gets too easily overshadowed by Epic when described in text. A fixed lens Scarlet is going to beat the shit out of every requirement to make a "film" image. I really am curious if RED will ever have them on a shelf or if they'll remain in infinite back order until they're discontinued.

If you're not sure if you need a Scarlet or an Epic... Then the Scarlet is more than enough for what you're doing. /rant

ps- I know this post isn't really relevant. Sorry.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
RED has stated that they once were developing a wide angle converter as well as a zoom multiplier. They haven't given much word on it as of recent...but neither had they spoken about the mattebox until just this week.
Click to expand...

Can't find the references now, but Red did say in December that the WA and Tele adapters were not a priority, which is why there was some discussion about Century/Schneider at that time. As opposed to Jarred's hints a few weeks ago that the mattebox was near release.
 
Lee Saxon said:
"Worth" and "Zeiss/Cooke/etc would charge" don't exactly mean the same thing. Oh the cine market...
Click to expand...

Exactly! It's very unlikely they are going to lose money selling this camera, even though they could be making a hell of a lot more.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
RED has stated that they once were developing a wide angle converter as well as a zoom multiplier. They haven't given much word on it as of recent...but neither had they spoken about the mattebox until just this week.
Click to expand...

A RED branded converter would be great. Even though there are other alternatives, I would like to see a coverter included in a Scarlet kit.
 
If I would buy one camera only, I would never buy Fixed Scarlet. 24mm lens just isn't nearly as wide as needed with that sensor size. Of course I could buy some cheap DSLR with wide lens for wide shots, but what's the point to have Scarlet then when it's not versitable for normal shooting and you have to use crappy (compared to 3k RAW) DSLR 1080p in your work. I don't think no one would buy Epic if the widest lens possible for it were 50mm.
 
Derek S. said:
If I would buy one camera only, I would never buy Fixed Scarlet. 24mm lens just isn't nearly as wide as needed with that sensor size. Of course I could buy some cheap DSLR with wide lens for wide shots, but what's the point to have Scarlet then when it's not versitable for normal shooting and you have to use crappy (compared to 3k RAW) DSLR 1080p in your work. I don't think no one would buy Epic if the widest lens possible for it were 50mm.
Click to expand...

Hi Derek. I think you may be getting confused between the actual focal length of the lens and the "relative" focal length of the lens in comparison to other formats. I'm sure you aren't alone - I for one hate crop factor discussions with a passion.

The lens on the Fixed Scarlet is a 7.5mm-63mm f2.4/T2.6.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Hi Derek. I think you may be getting confused between the actual focal length of the lens and the "relative" focal length of the lens in comparison to other formats.

The lens on the Fixed Scarlet is a 7.5mm-63mm f2.4/T2.6.
Click to expand...
Oh ok, sorry my noobness. So in the wide end the lens would be the same as 15mm in s35? How about in FF35?
 
Derek S. said:
Oh ok, sorry my noobness. So in the wide end the lens would be the same as 15mm in s35? How about in FF35?
Click to expand...

No need to apologize.

Well, remember there are qualities of lenses aside from field of view that are dependent on actual focal length.

So the field of view on the wide end would be equivalent to ~20mm on S35 and ~29mm on FF35.
 
Michael Olsen said:
No need to apologize.

Well, remember there are qualities of lenses aside from field of view that are dependent on actual focal length.

So the field of view on the wide end would be equivalent to ~20mm on S35 and ~29mm on FF35.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying that. I'm pretty new to the video world, but have been photographing for few years with FF. My widest lens is 16-35/2.8 and it's wide enough for everything at least for me, but there have been many times where 20mm has been the minimum focal length that I was able to get the shot just like I wanted (or at all). So that's why I think Fixed version is still not wide enough. I mean, I would be very sad with Scarlet in my hands just to realize that I'm unable to get the shot for that reason and there's nothing I can do. Photography is different field though and wider lenses are used more often, but I would want the Scarlet to be able to record every shot I wan't.

Also the lens is 2.8, so to get shallower DOF when needed would be easier with faster glass (like Canon that I already own). I read that some people say that Scarlet S35 is not good for documentary work because the shallower DOF, but isn't the ISO performance so good in these models that you can just stop down to get deeper DOF?
 
Scarlet fixed lens is f2.4, which determines DOF. T2.6 for exposure.
7.5mm on the wide end gets you approx. 77 degree horizontal aov at full 3k 1.89:1 wide screen and about 73 degrees for 16:9 HD format. That is reasonably wide for most purposes. There are aftermarket wide angle adapters and tele-extenders available if needed.
 
The change from FF35 photography to 2/3" photography will definitely be a big switch.

The balance between field of view capability, aperture, sensor size, depth of field, and ISO is pretty much something that everyone will have to figure out for themselves depending on their type of work and their own personal aesthetic.

The use of wide angle converters, increasing ISO, using really long lenses, etc. all provide "workarounds" to different issues and all carry sacrifices.
 
Yes the difference is huge compared to FF35. I don't think the sensor size is big enough, Fixed or not. For documentary work it is ok, but for (extreme) sports it will not be enough. DSLR's would be ok for that, but then 30fps isn't enough. Fast frame rates for me is the most important thing in RED's, but the price of Scarlet S35 body will be what, 3x more than the 2/3? Maybe I should just start saving some money and buy the S35 version next year :)
 
Derek S. said:
Yes the difference is huge compared to FF35. I don't think the sensor size is big enough, Fixed or not. For documentary work it is ok, but for (extreme) sports it will not be enough. DSLR's would be ok for that, but then 30fps isn't enough. Fast frame rates for me is the most important thing in RED's, but the price of Scarlet S35 body will be what, 3x more than the 2/3? Maybe I should just start saving some money and buy the S35 version next year :)
Click to expand...

If you want Scarlet 2/3" frame rates in S35 you will need Epic-X, $28k body.
But you are thinking like a still photographer. Most broadcast action sports is shot on 2/3" or smaller format cameras. FF35mm shallow DOF is not easy to deal with following fast action. If you are shooting very wide you won't get it anyway.
 
Michael Olsen said:
No need to apologize.

Well, remember there are qualities of lenses aside from field of view that are dependent on actual focal length.

So the field of view on the wide end would be equivalent to ~20mm on S35 and ~29mm on FF35.
Click to expand...

If that's correct I would need a 3K quality wide adapter that would give a factor of 0.5 or 0.6 times to fully replace my DSLR. The 0.8 Schneider that was mentioned would help but wouldn't really cut it.

So I may have some searching to do.

Mike
 
David Rasberry said:
If you want Scarlet 2/3" frame rates in S35 you will need Epic-X, $28k body.
But you are thinking like a still photographer. Most broadcast action sports is shot on 2/3" or smaller format cameras. FF35mm shallow DOF is not easy to deal with following fast action. If you are shooting very wide you won't get it anyway.
Click to expand...
Epic-S don't have 120fps in 3k or 2k? Yes I know FF wide open is too shallow for almost anything, and for video you have to stop it down quiet a lot to get pleasent DOF, and that will cost you ISO. In my opinion S35 size sensor is way better for video.

Somehow it feels stupid to buy camera that shoots 5k when I would be more than happy shooting 2k and I think that would be my main resolution to shoot with anyways. It's just so much easier to work with 2k and you don't need huge ammounts of HD space.

60fps is just absolute minimum for sports and to get pleasent slow motion. So HDSLR's will not work. And GH2 is really the only HDSLR that has good picture quality, at least from the tests I've seen (every HDSLR looks good in vimeo, but not from projector).
 
Last edited:
If you shoot 2k on S35 to get frame rates it will be a slightly larger than 2/3" sized crop, so you lose both resolution and DOF. 3k raw is the best compromise for 1080p finish. These cameras will also have a full sensor scaled internally to 1080p video mode, at the expense of frame rates.
We don't know yet what the lower end Epic-S frame rates will be. They have not announced any specs for it yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top