Scarlet Dragon Upgrade - Noise issues

[Bob Gundu]

Also with black shading, make sure the camera is HOT! Record high speed for 10mintes or something to get it there faster. Can't stress this enough. The noise on dragon when done properly is negligible.

 

[Brian Boyer]

I know we're dealing with a different medium and people have certain expectations of the medium. Nevertheless, I put this link here as a reminder of how noise-free Dragon is in this instance (and most others) compared to S35mm film.

Mommy, winner of the Cannes Jury Prize. Grain (the photochemical version of noise) galore and it looks great - to me, anyway.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/mommy

 

[Guilherme Belchior Afonso]

Guilherme, like others have said, the noise level is normal for the way the pictures are exposed which, in most cases for Dragon, is underexposed. Even when the levels are brought back up, I think the images look fine. I do like Dragon's texture, though.

I tend to preach light meters around here (to no avail). An alternative is using Gio Scope to set exposure.

Akin did it to perform his exposure test and I thought it worked quite well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmZZjAjJAPQ

Gio Scope displays actual sensor data, independent of metadata adjustments.

Stop 11 represents middle gray. Many people rate Caucasian skin at 1 stop over, which would be 12 on Gio Scope. If you set the key side of your subject's face at 12 and the fill side somewhere in the range from 9-12 (covering a 4:1 ratio), you'll have a consistent frame of reference and target for exposure.

I also noticed you start with REDgamma and then alter the luma curve. Since you're manipulating the curve anyway, might I suggest starting with REDlogFilm instead? I find I get a much better result that way and I'm not trying to undo what the REDgamma curve has already done.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your post! I never used Gio Scope before, I´ll give it a try.
About RedLogFilm, I´m not sure how to use it. I have read the RED´s info on that subject and it looks like it´s quite "pro" for me ehehehe. How do you use it? You start right away in camera and then grade with Redlogfilm? And then? Where can I learn more about that way of working?

Cheers

 

[egon touste]

remember also, there are two basic types of noise to look out for
1) low light induced noise
2) artifacts caused by complex, high contrast imagery ..which may be worsened if type 1 is present at the same time

both types of noise sit ontop of electronic and system noise generated by the camera and environment

nb, higher redcode rates will help with the artifacts (type 2) .. but in lowlight situations (type 1), shooting higher data rates simply captures more "noise floor" IME (.. which is a massively inefficient waste of storage space frankly).. and IME can lead to less pleasing overall noise characteristics (which may seem unintuitive at first) .. but lossy codecs have to make decisions about what to keep, and what to throw away. having less data at its disposal (ie, when bandwidth is limited), can in some situations lead to different compression decisions being made by the codec, which are not always bad ones

 

[Brian Boyer]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your post! I never used Gio Scope before, I´ll give it a try.
About RedLogFilm, I´m not sure how to use it. I have read the RED´s info on that subject and it looks like it´s quite "pro" for me ehehehe. How do you use it? You start right away in camera and then grade with Redlogfilm? And then? Where can I learn more about that way of working?

Cheers

I should've been clearer. I meant shoot as you normally do with whatever REDgamma (2,3 or 4) you like. When it comes time to adjust color in Redcine-X (or Resolve, etc.), change the Gamma Curve drop-down menu to REDlogFilm. It'll give you a "normalized," flat image from which to start.

Since you were adjusting the s-curve to make adjustments to the image anyway, starting from a flat image might yield better results for you. It does for me. I noticed you were brightening the image to compensate for REDgamma4's aggressive curve. That's certainly one way to do it.

Given the nature of many of your shots, I found REDlogFilm to be a much better starting point. REDlogFilm allows you to make more informed decisions as to what adjustments need to be made.

It takes a little practice but I'm positive it's not too "pro" for you. You don't have to do it this way and I know a lot of people use the REDgamma curves as a starting point. It's up to you.