SCARLET DRAGON REDCODE OPTIONS

[TD Wood]

Hi,
I believe the Scarlet Dragon redcode options have been published at red.com (https://www.red.com/downloads/52cddef32f74a96b22002aa4). It took me a while to read the tables properly but I think I finally got it. This is what I have interpreted from the charts (please correct me if I am wrong):
- 5K ff= 8:1 at 24 fps / 9:1 at 25 fps / 16:1 at 48 fps
- 5K 2:1=8:1 at both 24 & 25 fps / 16:1 at 50 fps
- 5K WS= 7:1 at both 24 & 25 fps /16:1 at 60 fps
- 5K HD= 8:1 at both 24& 25 fps / 15:1 at 48 fps

REDCODE at 4K seems to stay similar to Scarlet MX.

Really looking forward to see some test footage from those who already have a Scarlet Dragon in their hands.

cheers

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

whoaa 16:1 at 60fps

Yea Upgrading to Epic is by far the better choice.

Too bad you can't get a used Epic at a good price. Epic footage at 3:1 is bomba! Plus 120fps

These compression specs are kinda disappointing I won't lie.

Scarlet-D may have more fps but the ratios aren't as good, Scarlet-X has better ratios but no HiSpeed

 

[Mike Garrick]

So basically @ 24/25 fps 5K you are shooting more compression @ 8.1 than current Scarlet @ 4K @ 6.1. mmmmm......

 

[Brandon J.F.]

whoaa 16:1 at 60fps

REDCODE has improved a lot with Dragon. It's not the same as MX 16:1.

 

[Nick Morrison]

REDCODE has improved a lot with Dragon. It's not the same as MX 16:1.

Agreed. Dragon REDCODE is supposed to be much more efficient, and a totally new animal. Not surprising the old RED ROCKET doesn't work anymore...as this appears to be a brand new compression scheme...

 

[Mike Garrick]

Then it needs to be qualified because at the moment the compression specs read as underwhelming.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

So basically @ 24/25 fps 5K you are shooting more compression @ 8.1 than current Scarlet @ 4K @ 6.1. mmmmm......

I think there are two misunderstandings here. Let's first dispose of the argument that goes "hey, the only think I care about is sensor size because of FOV or DOF". Such a perspective treats 4K SCARLET-MX as equivalent to 5K SCARLET DRAGON, and ignores more than 50% more total pixels of information, 3 stops more dynamic range, better color, and better compression results due to lower intrinsic noise.

So let's make the comparison more fair, and compare 4K SCARLET-MX to 4K SCARLET DRAGON. Yes, there's slightly smaller FOV and slightly deeper DOF because of the slightly smaller imaging area, but number of pixels are the same. In that case, SCARLET-MX can do 6:1 whereas SCARLET DRAGON can do 5:1. Not only is that a 16% increase in total bytes stored per unit of time, but DRAGON compression is also considered to be substantially superior to MX compression due to lower/better intrinsic noise. And that's *after* encoding more stops of dynamic range and better color accuracy. As Timur Civan wrote last year, DRAGON compression at 5:1 behaves like uncompressed MX. Which is obviously way better than MX at 6:1.

With that out of the way, let's now compare 5K SCARLET DRAGON against 4K SCARLET-MX. Again quoting Timur, the new DRAGON compression makes 17:1 look like 10:1 and 12:1 look like 5:1. Thus SCARLET DRAGON's 8:1 compression should look something like SCARLET-MX at 4:1 or maybe even 3:1. That *also* kills the MX 6:1 benchmark, and it does so with 56% more pixels than the 4K MX image.

It's true that the SCARLET DRAGON does not spec nearly as well as EPIC DRAGON. But compared with SCARLET-MX, it's a giant leap forward, not sideways.

 

[Nick Morrison]

It's true that the SCARLET DRAGON does not spec nearly as well as EPIC DRAGON. But compared with SCARLET-MX, it's a giant leap forward, not sideways.

Agree 100%. Dragon Scarlet to me is far superior to current Scarlet. Being able to shoot 5k HD 48fs...not having to reframe down for slowmo anymore...is HUGE! I do a lot of doc work, so for me 6K Dragon is too much data to handle...5K is ideal. But I need slowmo for portraits and promo work, and I always hated having to scale down to 3K in Scarlet MX. Being able to STAY AT 5K for 48fps is HUGE FOR ME!! And, I love that 60fps is availble at 5K WS. Love that too. And the more advanced high speed options available to me at 4K and 3K...all with much better DR and color science.

I am TOTALLY SOLD.

Maybe next year, should these Dragon Scarlets prove as good as I think they can, I'll be able to save...and add an Epic Dragon big brother to them...but for now, I'll be more than happy with a couple of Dragon Scarlets...

best

 

[Andreas Mendritzki]

Yeah, plus that whole part about it being DRAGON. After having shot with both chips (MX and DRAGON, in EPIC form), its a totally different beast. Scarlet dragon is a ridiculously good camera for 24/25/30fps work. Ridiculously good for a ridiculously good price.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Yeah, plus that whole part about it being DRAGON. After having shot with both chips (MX and DRAGON, in EPIC form), its a totally different beast. Scarlet dragon is a ridiculously good camera for 24/25/30fps work. Ridiculously good for a ridiculously good price.

And add in that it can do 48fps at 5K, and yes...ridiculously good.

 

[TD Wood]

Agreed. Dragon REDCODE is supposed to be much more efficient, and a totally new animal. Not surprising the old RED ROCKET doesn't work anymore...as this appears to be a brand new compression scheme...

I remember some of the first Dragon tests done with 15:1 compressions (I think it was Toia's) and they were quite impressive. In any case, we will know pretty soon as Scarlet Dragons are already in a few hands.

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

REDCODE has improved a lot with Dragon. It's not the same as MX 16:1.

come to think of it I remember that post from about a year ago if not more. Jared commented on the Compression having a better scheme whooa crazy to think Dragons are out in full flood they're everywhere.

I would like an explanation from Red just to better understand whats going on under the hood.

Its sounds great and all but I wont know until I do my own tests and see for myself.

Dragon is totally different than MX it's nice having a new learning curve the way you grade for Dragon is very different than MX. The same could very well be for compression.

 

[Ian D]

I am a bit surprised that the mini mags do not make any difference to the compression. Looking forward to seeing so footage at 16:1 to see if it will be acceptable and also at 8:1.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I am a bit surprised that the mini mags do not make any difference to the compression. Looking forward to seeing so footage at 16:1 to see if it will be acceptable and also at 8:1.

It just shows that EPIC DRAGON is so powerful that it is limited by the speed of the media. Less powerful, SCARLET DRAGON is not.