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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCARLET DRAGON -> EPIC DRAGON?!

With Weapon 6K being undesirable to me and Weapon 8K being more than I want to invest, I'm looking at this possibility... just as I'm almost done paying off my Scarlet Dragon, lol. Gotta think about this one.
 
I want to give them my $ as soon as I can pull it together, but unfortunately it won't be in the next several weeks.[/QUOTE]


I think you are right. I would definetely go that path if we would have some more time - weapon seems to be a bit far away at the moment.
 
Think about how much the secondary market for Scarlet Dragons will plummet once the end-of-June deadline has passed.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Oh, camera life is getting soooo complicated. LOL
Click to expand...

Seriously, June Terry? is when I expect to be sending in #0123 for the MX-Dragon upgrade. Can I, should I just go WHOLE HOG on EPIC at that point? It says my camera is eligible! Pretty mind blowing stuff! Glad I keep checking in here every now and then! WOW!
 
I just purchased this Scarlet Dragon two weeks ago so unfortunately, I don't have the cake to take advantage of this, now if it were June 2016.... ;)
 
I think that the Epic Dragon path is a great option for the Scarlet Dragon owners, if the road to Weapon seems difficult.
I only wish we have more time available, at least until 8k arrives, so Epic Dragon becomes the "Scarlet" of Weapon 8k.
Unless RED have more plans with Weapon, this could be the best option.​

 
Bill Stengel said:
I just caught that. It's only at the top of the page in bolded-all caps.
This is sort of a drag, actually. I doubt I'll be able to come up with the scratch between now and June to make the leap. If they were able to announce that the M-X upgrades would be ending in June a while ago, why do we only get a three-month window to upgrade? The equivalent amount of time may have allowed me to allocate the funds to make the upgrade happen.

EDIT: Copied from my thread on the SCARLET forum...

If the folks at RED were able to announce a while ago that M-X to Dragon upgrades would be ending at the end of June, then why do we only get this 10.5 week window in which to make the leap to Epic? I know this opportunity is more or less a gift to us Scarlet owners, since Scarlet-D was considered to be EOL when it was launched; but at least give us a reasonable window of time in which to upgrade. Sure, (almost) everyone is going bananas for the new camera and whatnot, but giving us until the end of 2015 feels a bit better.

It almost feels as if they're doing the bare minimum to honor their Obsolescence Obsolete ethos so they can say "there was an upgrade path from Scarlet-D to Epic-D, so we've never had a product actually be EOL."
10.5 weeks seems like a bit of a sleight, whereas M-X upgrades have been going on for how many years?

If they get the upgrade line up and running, isn't it more cost effective to keep it going for twice as long, or until the end of the year?

Sorry to come off as a whiner, but this upgrade window is sort of BS.

I want to give them my $ as soon as I can pull it together, but unfortunately it won't be in the next several weeks.
Click to expand...

It's not so much whining, as much as it is reflecting on pattern. I believe that the Scarlet-MX to Epic-MX upgrade deadline is justified. They're internally retiring the MX chip, it's had a phenomenal run, and will continue to do so on the used market within the hands of capable owners/operators.

However, I do not understanding why they've deadlined Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon upgrades. That tradition is true for the MX up until June and has been since 2013. Seeing as it's been stated that Dragon is not going anywhere for some time, should it not remain the same?
 
I'm trying to consider all costs of upgrading Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon:

Likely more Mini-Mags (or a laptop dump setup):
Scarlet Dragon's 5K WS 7:1 gets 1 hour 57 min on 512GB - I never had to think about compression options.
- With Epic Dragon 6K, what's the threshold at which compression is difference is not noticeable (non chroma key stuff) 4:1 vs 5:1 vs 6:1 etc.?

My current workstation:
- CPU - i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core
- GPU - single GTX 770 4GB
- RAM - 32GB
- RAID - For scratch, I use a BIOS RAID-0 (2x 2TB HDD for 3.45TB avail space)
-- Not a hardware RAID, I know, but it gets me by if I'm editing in 1/4 quality

If it means too much extra cost in storage and workstation upgrades, I might just keep rolling with the Scarlet Dragon.
 
Akin A said:
If it means too much extra cost in storage and workstation upgrades, I might just keep rolling with the Scarlet Dragon.
Click to expand...

You can continue to shoot in 5K in S35 at lower compression ratios with more framerate options.

The SD > ED upgrade is almost a no brainer if you can swing it in time.


Also, you can think of it as a step towards weapon, as most of the upgrade charge transfers to weapon credit.
ie. you pay $9.5K + tax and get the current flagship that is available now AND $8K more towards VVeapon.



Its a really sweat deal and proof that Red is committed to all tiers of its customer base.
 
Also, 5K 3:1 is super clean; noticeably better then 8:1

Also you can shoot 5.5K at 4:1 for extra oomph to your FoV and super-sampling to 4K w/out as much of a data hit as 6K


8K = 16 x 2K

6K = 9.0 x 2K

5.5K = 7.5 x 2K

5K = 6.25 x 2K


Plus ED has more anamorphic options
 
interesting enough, if your delivery format is UHD, 5.5K HD on ED is s few hairs bigger then double the size of 4K HD.

Working at double target res is a magical ratio IMO.
 
I guess Epic Dragon to Weapon Dragon will be available for at least two years from now. But how long Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon will be available?
 
I paid 14,500 for my scarlet brain.

If I upgrade to weapon now that value goes to 10,000. (5,000 trade in value, 5,000 accessories).

If I upgrade to Epic now, that value remains at 14,500. ($9,500 to upgrade to a $24,000 system)

If I upgrade my epic dragon to weapon at a later date, if I can still receive the "dragon owner before NAB" prices my 24,000 camera gets me $20,500 (15,500 trade in value + 5000 in credit) Otherwise it just gets me 18,000. (trade in + credit).

Upgrading directly from scarlet to weapon means a difference of $4,500 for my scarlet's year or so of use.

Upgrading through Epic Dragon means a difference of $0 for the scarlet to epic and $3,500 for the epic to weapon, $1,000 less. Or, if I cannot keep my pre-NAB owner bonus, potentially $1,500 more to have an epic in the mean time.

Seems like an obvious choice until more info is out.
 
Daniel Reed said:
interesting enough, if your delivery format is UHD, 5.5K HD on ED is s few hairs bigger then double the size of 4K HD.

Working at double target res is a magical ratio IMO.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.

It's not like I have the $ sitting around. I just have no interest in Weapon Mg, and Weapon CF isn't on my radar at that price. So Epic Dragon would be the only better RED camera I'd want. And the competition isn't really touching 6K 16.5 stops 100fps, so I could probably just sit back and shoot without wanting anything else for a while. But I tell myself that every year, lol.
 
I'm with you Akin, although it's disappointing not to have an 'Aluminium/Scarlet' Weapon more within reach of us Scarlet owners the Epic upgrade is a great way to go and the path I think I'll take. It feels like this upgrade path is an olive branch from RED to the Scarlet owners and gives them a slightly more digestible option.
I'm not blown away by the weapon enough to get crazy excited about parting with all that extra cash, not that I have it anyway!
But at least the Epic Dragon will be relevant and powerful enough for years to come, not to mention upgradeable if you ever feel 6K raw at 100fps isn't enough!
 
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