Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCARLET ANNOUNCEMENT - Feedback

not everyone has been around for the years of discussion and progression on media.

here's the quick and dirty story: the media being produced out there is not "up to speed" (at least not as advertised). off the shelf media cannot be trusted to continuously read & write fast enough. only the very special cream of the crop can do it. it has to be put through serious testing criteria and rehoused for stability purposes. there were and have been issues in the past with media dropping frames and causing problems because it couldn't keep up with the cameras. red has chosen to protect their reputation and their customers. agree with it or not, but that's what it is. funny thing is it's not so overpriced as you might expect.
 
Michael Panfeld said:
OK, I will first admit that I have not read all of the 5 or 7 hundred posts on this and other threads. So if this has been answered, forgive.

I looked at the spec and there is apparently only 1 aspect ratio 1.9:1. I was looking forward to using my LOMO anamorphics and shooting 2.35:1. Is there an anamorphic solution for Scarlet-X?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Jim said yes at the announcement.
 
Internal ND Filters and mounts

Internal ND Filters and mounts

I have to admit that I feel like I have been spoiled by having internal ND filters on my current camera. Any reason why Scarlet doesn't have this feature? Also, I realize there isn't a Nikon Mount available yet, but how difficult is it to change mounts after? Are there quick 3 party solutions to swap between something like Nikon and PL mounts?

Thanks.
 
Gene Crucean said:
Wait. What are the dimensions of the actual sensor? I thought it was an S35 sensor... meaning that at full res or 5k... it's S35. Now I'm legitimately confused.
Click to expand...

It's the same MX sensor that is being used in the EPIC and RED One. Photo sites (pixels) are 5.4 microns (0.0054mm) square. Maximum active area is 5120x2700. Dimensions at that resolution are 27.648mm x 14.48mm So the sensor is wider than Super35 or APS-C, really close to Canon APS-H width. 4K mode is 22.12mm wide, which is very close to Super35, but just a bit under. Almost identical in width to 35mm Academy format.

You don't need to concern yourself with any crop factors if you're relating between 4K and Super35. All close enough to not really matter. And "S35" is not always 100% consistent between camera makers. Same with APS-C or Nikon DX, which are typically very similar to S35. Cameras in those formats from their respective manufacturers can vary in active sensor size by a millimeter or two between camera models. Don't over-think this...
 
Bob Gundu said:
I have to admit that I feel like I have been spoiled by having internal ND filters on my current camera. Any reason why Scarlet doesn't have this feature? Also, I realize there isn't a Nikon Mount available yet, but how difficult is it to change mounts after? Are there quick 3 party solutions to swap between something like Nikon and PL mounts?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Isn't it just a matter of 4 screws and a minute of time?
 
Bob Gundu said:
I have to admit that I feel like I have been spoiled by having internal ND filters on my current camera. Any reason why Scarlet doesn't have this feature? Also, I realize there isn't a Nikon Mount available yet, but how difficult is it to change mounts after? Are there quick 3 party solutions to swap between something like Nikon and PL mounts?
Click to expand...

Build-in ND's just aren't practical on a camera system like this. There is the internal filter tray option though.

Mounts are easy to change. Just 4 bolts. Takes just a minute or two to go from PL to Canon. Not as quick as a lens change, but fast and you can do it in the field. Just be sure to do it where you're not risking damage to the camera or dirt getting in there or whatever The sensor will be exposed momentarily while you swap the mount itself. I don't know what kind of solution would be able to speed this up, unless RED would have made some sort of quick-attachment system. But I think this way is best. It's just simple, it works and it's strong.
 
AJ Aguirre said:
Isn't it just a matter of 4 screws and a minute of time?
Click to expand...

Correct. The mounts are smart.. as soon as you take one off ( with 4 screws ) and put another on the camera will know what it is and automatically load the appropriate lens database in a second and a half and your ready to shoot.
 
Jarred Land said:
Our SSD's are expensive because they require special testing with low yields
Click to expand...

Just an idea — couldn't you have two types of SSD's; the ones that handle all current data flows (at current prices), and those that only handle the data flows from the Scarlet/Red One (at reduced prices).

I do understand that this would cut into the "all Epic parts fit on the Scarlet and vice versa" philosophy, but I am sure that the Scarlet crowd would rejoice — and you guys would get a higher yield.

For easy differentiation, the SSD's should come in different colors.

(This would also be a welcome option for Epic, as one could have a few high-speed SSDs for those rare high-speed shots; big budget productions would of course only use these to get the lowest compression; but for smaller shoots / owner/operators, it would be great to have longer format disks for those pesky interview/event type projects, where one does not need high framerates, HDRx or lowest compression.)

Thanks for considering...
 
I definitely think this is a great idea - the ssd prices are hard to stomach :/

Martin Weiss said:
Just an idea — couldn't you have two types of SSD's; the ones that handle all current data flows (at current prices), and those that only handle the data flows from the Scarlet/Red One (at reduced prices).

I do understand that this would cut into the "all Epic parts fit on the Scarlet and vice versa" philosophy, but I am sure that the Scarlet crowd would rejoice — and you guys would get a higher yield.

For easy differentiation, the SSD's should come in different colors.

(This would also be a welcome option for Epic, as one could have a few high-speed SSDs for those rare high-speed shots; big budget productions would of course only use these to get the lowest compression; but for smaller shoots / owner/operators, it would be great to have longer format disks for those pesky interview/event type projects, where one does not need high framerates, HDRx or lowest compression.)

Thanks for considering...
Click to expand...
 
Martin Weiss said:
Just an idea — couldn't you have two types of SSD's; the ones that handle all current data flows (at current prices), and those that only handle the data flows from the Scarlet/Red One.

I do understand that this would cut into the "all Epic parts fit on the Scarlet and vice versa" philosophy, but I am sure that the Scarlet crowd would rejoice — and you guys would get a higher yield.

For easy differentiation, the SSD's should come in different colors.

(This would also be a welcome option for Epic, as one could have a few high-speed SSDs for those rare high-speed shots; big budget productions would of course only use these to get the lowest compression; but for smaller shoots / owner/operators, it would be great to have longer format disks for those pesky interview/event type projects, where one does not need high framerates, HDRx or lowest compression.)

Thanks for considering...
Click to expand...

We have been testing cheaper/slower solutions... so far they haven't worked well. Its not all about speed.. reliability with constant non-traditional block data writes over and over again, temperature issues, lifespan etc. Same thing we went through with CF cards the first time around. We just don't like to take chances on media.
 
Tehben Dean said:
Pro SxS cards are twice as expensive as REDmags per gig...

I would like to hear more about this "internal filter tray option" is there any more info out there about it?
Click to expand...

Yes they are.. still don't understand what people expect here.... but o well. Can't make everyone happy :)

The internal filter tray goes over the sensor and is accessible through the port of the mount... you need to take your lens off to change it. Not the kinda thing you want to be doing 10x an hour, but to switch to different NDs that will stay in there for a long time, or different diffusions, its a great solution to avoid needing a matte box.
 
Jarred Land said:
The internal filter tray goes over the sensor and is accessible through the port of the mount... you need to take your lens off to change it. Not the kinda thing you want to be doing 10x an hour, but to switch to different NDs that will stay in there for a long time, or different diffusions, its a great solution to avoid needing a matte box.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation Jarred!
 
paulherrin said:
the media being produced out there is not "up to speed" (at least not as advertised). off the shelf media cannot be trusted to continuously read & write fast enough. only the very special cream of the crop can do it. it has to be put through serious testing criteria and rehoused for stability purposes. there were and have been issues in the past with media dropping frames and causing problems because it couldn't keep up with the cameras. red has chosen to protect their reputation and their customers. agree with it or not, but that's what it is. funny thing is it's not so overpriced as you might expect.
Click to expand...

Yeah well I didn't know of RED's reasons nor their sourcing and testing procedures, so it was an assumption on my part to assume they were overpriced relative to the effort and cost put into them. They're of course overpriced though relative to the consumer SSD space, which are faster than you think. $200 these days gets you a 128GB SSD with at least 200MB/s constant read/write, though most hit around 500MB/s in ideal use cases. For Scarlet's 55MB/s data throughput requirement, literally any SSD on the market would suffice, at least in terms of throughput. RED's probably taken the less risky but more expensive route, but it no doubt produces a better wearing and more consistent product. I'm also very aware of compatibility issues currently suffered by SSD's, and there's no way RED could ensure compatibility with anything but their own media, but I just wish RED would opt for a standard 2.5" SSD format. They could still sell their own media as RED certified which I'm sure the majority of people would buy, but it would at least allow the lower budget customer to trade-off price with risk by going with less rugged uncertified SSD's. I guess my point is that RED's quality standards when it comes to media exceeds what's required for those customers on a restricted budget, but I can certainly appreciate RED's desire to lock-down their media in order to provide the absolute highest quality user experience.

I'd like to acknowledge that I have no idea how RED cameras actually write to their SSD's. It's possible their usage patterns don't suit traditional SSD controllers intended for use in computers.

So on one hand I'm completely understanding, but on the other hand (the financial hand), I just wish there was some way I could record onto cheaper media, especially now that the cost of the camera body is higher than originally predicted. If it was still around $7 - $8k for a 2/3 fixed + kit, it would be much easier to swallow the media costs.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes they are.. still don't understand what people expect here.... but o well. Can't make everyone happy :)

The internal filter tray goes over the sensor and is accessible through the port of the mount... you need to take your lens off to change it. Not the kinda thing you want to be doing 10x an hour, but to switch to different NDs that will stay in there for a long time, or different diffusions, its a great solution to avoid needing a matte box.
Click to expand...

Sent PM about something important to me, also, a query, are you guys interested in NYU - what if RED was the only digital camera on campus?
 
Tom Wardrop said:
Yeah well I didn't know of RED's reasons nor their sourcing and testing procedures, so it was an assumption on my part to assume they were overpriced relative to the effort and cost put into them. They're of course overpriced though relative to the consumer SSD space, which are faster than you think. $200 these days gets you a 128GB SSD with at least 200MB/s constant read/write, though most hit around 500MB/s. For Scarlet's 55MB/s data throughput requirement, literally any SSD on the market would suffice. RED's probably taken the less risky but more expensive route, but it probably produces a better wearing and more consistent product. I'm also very aware of compatibility issues currently suffered by SSD's, and there's no way RED could ensure compatibility with anything but their own media, but I just wish RED would opt for a standard 2.5" SSD format. They could still sell their own media as RED certified which I'm sure the majority of people would buy, but it would at least allow the lower budget customer to trade-off price with risk by going with less rugged uncertified SSD's. I guess my point is that RED's quality standards when it comes to media exceeds what's required for those customers on a restricted budget, but I can certainly appreciate RED's desire to lock-down their media in order to provide the absolute highest quality user experience.

So on one hand I'm completely understanding, but the other hand (the financial hand), I just wish there was some way I could record onto cheaper media, especially now that the cost of the camera body is higher than originally predicted. If it was still around $7 - $8k for a 2/3 fixed + kit, it would be much easier to swallow the media costs.
Click to expand...

Tom.. here you go again. We are not going to offer " risky " media.. even if you sign a contract saying you promise not to get mad at us if something goes wrong... Because as soon as something does, and you rent your camera to some producer and your entire card gets corrupted, 9/10 times the story is going to be:

" it's the RED Camera's fault "

instead of :

" Sorry mr. Producer, I cheaped out and got media that i knew might go bad, and yes mr. producer, I am fully liable. "

We tried to meet halfway with allowing regular CF cards on the RED ONE at reduced speeds.. and that was a total disaster. You would be amazed at the stories....
 
amen jarred. amen.

with the budgets people expend. be it $1000 or $100M... skimping on media is the WORST decision. the storage of the culmination of all departments and collaboration
is the LAST place you want to skimp on your budget. next is sound. spend all your money there too... :)
 
We are not likely to offer "Scarlet only" media. Someone owns both EPIC and Scarlet and has to remember which media will work with which camera?

Shooting a professional camera costs real money. If it doesn't make sense for you... we completely understand.

Jim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top