SCARLET ANNOUNCEMENT - Feedback

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I have a few questions for RED reps as one who put a deposit in on a Scarlet-X and would prefer to have full specs and information before paying in full for this product:

I asked Graeme about power consumption but he never got back to me with anything specific, so if someone could, would you please you let me know at least what kind of range we are looking at for average power draw or even for recording and idle modes ideally?

We are aware that the ASICs in Scarlet-X are to be clocked somewhere like 10x lower than Epic's or at least limited to such processing rates, but what effect might this have on sensor readout speed, if any? Will it have any effect on rolling shutter speed/performance and therefore artifacting? Any effect on boot times?

Could you also provide us with further information about available aspect ratios at various resolution modes and whether that has any effect on available frame rate options?

Thanks!

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

I waited a few days before posting (but have been reading almost everything...).

An Epic-S with 5K motion at 60 fps in the 12K-14K range was hard to do. Remember what Jim said. The EPIC-S would have had about half the horse power of the EPIC-X and would have costed about half the price. The X price will go up from 28K to 36K in two months. The S would have ended up within the 18K range. To much for those that wanted a Fixed Scarlet for 6K.

So Jim made a very clever decision.

He cut in the midle (from 6K to 18K, he decided to go for 12K - witch will be Scarlet's price in two months). He melted the Fixed Scarlet and the EPIC-S in ONE camera.

I have been thinking a lot and it turns out, once again, that Jim's right. He did what needed to be done. The 3K Scarlet with the small sensor wasn't a good idea in 2011. And the EPIC-S would have been far to expensive for many.

The Scarlet-X is what 99,99% of all indies need. S35 sensor with 24fps in 4K. It's half the price of the R1 !

Thanks Jim, Jarred, Graeme, Deanan and the HOLE RED TEAM for all your hard work ! You have changed the industry and our lives forever. Thank you so much.

We LOVE you...

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Nikon mount shipping in small numbers December, but still waiting on software... yes it is a mechanical smart mount that controls aperture.

1. Will this be in the store sometime between now and then, or do you mean 'shipping in small numbers to hand-selected customers'?

2. Will it be a pure dumb mount with no aperture control (i.e. no use with G lenses) until such time as the software is finished? Guesstimate timescale to software being finished enough to give at least manual aperture control? And I promise not to use any number given as a guesstimate to beat you about the head if you're late on this

3. Will there be a cheaper alloy version of the Nikon mount, intended for Scarlet, as you've already done with the Canon mount?

4. In... hopefully just about a couple of weeks, maybe more depending on my shooting schedule, check your snail mail at RED for a biggish package. You've earned it ;-)

Mike

 

[Meddy MOST]

Wanted to add my comment here ...

I'm just a simple guy who felt in love the very first day when RED showed their prototype 3-4 years ago at NAB... I was their... long time ago. People were laughting about RED, this small 3 letters ... a joke for numerous other ompanies but not for me. I don't know if RE known that they are many small soldiers like us, like me, defending them as hard as possible in the cinema industry... even today I have to do it when people are saying bad thing and bad comments, I'm always here to explain the true story...

In fact, long time ago, I was that I was too young and too poor to be one of the first starting the adventure with RED ...
But damn I tried my best to get a loan and pre-order a RED ONE and put a DEPOSIT... and was quite side when I got my negative answer

So it tooks me almost 2 years to have myself handling a RED ONE... What a fight !
Here in Europe and above all in France its quite hard to impose new product in the cinema industry especially cameras...
Now the time has changed yes... thanks RED... a lot of renting house is working with RED...

AFter 2 years of fight, I finally managed to make my company, a film school, where I teach people to be Camera/Operator, buy a RED ONE ...
and I'm fighting the same way to get our EPIC-X STG 3,5

I was really happy, and proud to teach and share my very old passion for RED to 100 students each year... And I'm still enjoying to see
all this students choosing RED in their "outside" productions when they have finished all their studies...
I'm saying to myself that I finally managed to get them love RED. My duty is done and it is the best reward I could get !

But now the time has changed, I grew up as the SCARLET, hehe, and I wanted to be a part of the game, a part of the revolution that RED brought to us. I'm so jaleous when I see all those people
having one or two numbers in their serial making debate about film, cinema, cameras, as I always wanted to be a part of that ...

Therefore, this time, I wanted to be one of the very first ... But it was hard... as the site was really slow, when the announcement came, it took me a hour and a half to order a SCARLET !
Each page was shown after 10 min long... what a wait, what a night, what a stress ... I had to refresh 5 or 10 times in order to make the page online on the STORE...
But I finally ordered it 1h30 after the announcement ...
Damn, once again, I was quite sad not to be the very first one to click on PLACE DEPOSIT...
I have done made my best, I would be so proud to get a two numbers serial !... But I think I'm dreaming again...

I know that I'm not an EPIC-M owner or a Famous Director and my story is not really interesting but I wanted to add and share this passion with you

I will probably burn my bank account as I'm not a rich guy but I ordered the camera, not alone with my best friend, the camera we already dreamt to have since we were little kids ...
and I will continue to share my passion for RED with many students ...

Thank you for that Jim, and also the RED Team....

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Tom.. here you go again. We are not going to offer " risky " media.. even if you sign a contract saying you promise not to get mad at us if something goes wrong... Because as soon as something does, and you rent your camera to some producer and your entire card gets corrupted, 9/10 times the story is going to be:

" it's the RED Camera's fault "

instead of :

" Sorry mr. Producer, I cheaped out and got media that i knew might go bad, and yes mr. producer, I am fully liable. "

We tried to meet halfway with allowing regular CF cards on the RED ONE at reduced speeds.. and that was a total disaster. You would be amazed at the stories....

I totally see both sides of this, but I especially see your point; mud in this area is easily thrown, and sticks.

I think you have it about right now; the only people who will be using anything other than official RED media on RED cameras are pretty much complete hackers like me, who can figure out how to make it work - and you're 100% correct, it is nothing LIKE as easy as some people would assume to make this stuff work reliably. And if you don't have reliability, you don't have *anything* in this business. I'm a hacker and I *still* won't use any of the fruits of my hacking on a paid job.

But I do agree Scarlet, with its significantly lower data rates, is begging for a cheaper, price/performance proportionate, storage solution; a four pack of 256GB SSD costs the same as the damn camera, and has FAR more performance than the camera will ever need or use - by nearly a factor of five (max data rates 250 MB/s EPIC vs 55MB/s Scarlet, right?) That HAS to change, and change soon, IMHO. Resurrect the damn eSATA module, even if only for Scarlet, so people on a real budget can recycle RED DRIVEs and RAM, will ya, at the very least? That shouldn't be hard to do. The CF-SSD adapter was a neat idea, is it still in the works? CF cards on the RED store still say 'Scarlet compatible' so I'm assuming it is, but then everything changes....

You totally cannot dare offer "risky" media, I 100% agree... but is there an official RED policy on testing compatible media and other storage solutions (I'm talking about SSD compatible here, or some kind of rear module) for compatibility with RED performance and reliability standards? When you 'approve' a 3rd party mount, say, you implicitly approve the manufacturing and QA standards of the company that makes it, that they will ALL conform adequately to the sample submitted for approval. That could be trickier for media, I agree, but still feasible surely? I'm talking about specifically engineered solutions, not off-the-shelf cards or components.

The RED SSD system seems to be a robust product, well-designed for hard use in the field. Perhaps it could and should become the de facto standard for professional high-performance data acquisition media for digital cinematography or indeed any similar demanding application - scientific data acquisition, for instance. Would RED consider licensing the design to 3rd parties? Day may come when you can buy a RED-compatible Sony or Lexar SSD module and use it in an Alexa or Canon or scientific instrument... that, and Moore's law, will drive down SSD cost/capacity ratio to more tolerable(1) levels

(1) tolerable for those on a restricted budget I mean; for big-budget operations the cost of media is dust in the balance.

Please take this as constructive

Mike

 

[Freya]

From what I understand, the scarlet is bandwidth limited in two critical areas, the first is the number of pixels per second which can be moved from the sensor to the ASICs. The second the ASICs are less powerful versions of the EPIC chips (can only run at lower clock speeds, if you will), limiting the maximum achievable compression ratio (more work). The two, limitations are likely very closely linked.

But that raises an interesting point. It seems to be all about the number of pixels... will Scarlet allow me to shoot 25FPS 5K at an aspect ratio of 2.96? 5120x1728 just sound like such a fun aspect ratio.

Spooky! I was just thinking the same thing as I clicked on this thread but obviously I was thinking more 2.40.
Perhaps the scarlet could have a couple of "2perf" modes that would shoot at a 2.40 ratio!
Okay, not much use for broadcast, but it seems like it could be a world of fun for the indie filmmaker.

I'm thinking 24 or 25fps in 5k 2perf mode and then a 120fps style 2 perf mode with whatever kind of extra res could be squeezed out. (I can tell there a lot of people who are unhappy that 120fps is 1k only).

I bet theres a lot of people out there who already shoot cinemascope aspect ratio by cropping!

What do you think?

love

Freya

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Has anyone heard from their BOMB squad rep since buying Scarlet X ? I was one of the thousands online Thursday and placed my order as soon as I could. I got confirmation on my order around 11pm EST or maybe a bit earlier. I haven't heard anything from my bomb squad rep as of yet. has anyone been contacted about their purchase.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Same as you, Eric. But I'm sure everything is being taken care of. Brent in another thread- just don't remember which one- said that if you've got your order through by voice or mail, you're safe. I think its just a matter of putting everything together due to the cyber attack. I can only imagine the chaos ( I could actually hear it on the phone )

 

[Louis Maddalena]

Just checked the data sheet for Scarlet-X and without knowing anything about how it works, it seems like there are some workable solutions for more than 12 fps. For example the aspect ratio is not 2:1 but what appears to be FF. It also shoots 5K at either RC 3:1 (8 fps) or RC 5:1 (12 fps). Could it squeeze out more fps if it recorded in 2:1 aspect ratio at a RC 12:1?

I would love to know this as well! I feel like its possible for this to happen but I aslo agree that is probably likely that although its possible it's probably limited because its a differentiating feature of the Epic.

I guess we will not know until the Scarlet-X starts shipping in a few weeks and somebody tests it.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Same as you, Eric. But I'm sure everything is being taken care of. Brent in another thread- just don't remember which one- said that if you've got your order through by voice or mail, you're safe. I think its just a matter of putting everything together due to the cyber attack. I can only imagine the chaos ( I could actually hear it on the phone )

I actually did it from the RED.com site and got an email confirmation and everything. I also ordered the 5 inch touch and an SSD, but when I called on Friday the girl said my bomb squad rep (whatever that means) will call me or email me that day. I never heard back. I'm sure they are very busy.

 

[Nik Harper]

Jarred,

Will the Epic pelican case work with Scarlet, or will there be a new case aimed at the Scarlet?

I really like the laser cut foam, but if there is going to be another one for scarlet, i'd rather not buy the current one!

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

Jarred,

Will the Epic pelican case work with Scarlet, or will there be a new case aimed at the Scarlet?

I really like the laser cut foam, but if there is going to be another one for scarlet, i'd rather not buy the current one!

I thought about the same thing. But as Scarlet-X is almost entirely the same on the outside, I should think so.

 

[Paul Ellington]

It will fit and the foam makes a difference. It's just nice to know your stuff had zero chance of rolling around in there, even with rubber cement etc, in foam it doesn't stay forever.

 

[Daniel Soderberg]

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but will Scarlet also be able to record 4.5k in 2:1 aspect like the Red One MX can?

Also, I see Scarlet data rate is 55mb/s, what is the Red One MX and what is the Epic's data rate?

 

[Jarred Land]

hey jarred, I got the same head here... what pieces did you use to mount the scarlet to it? can't really identify the parts.
is that just the dovetail quick release or is there something added to it? and is the mounting plate the manfrotto one or do you use a fitting RED plate?

you can screw the Scarlet right into the Manfrotto quick release plate, but I use this with our QR plate as the Manfrotto slide thing is a bit clunky.

http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/quick-release-platform-bolt-on

 

[Jarred Land]

I thought about the same thing. But as Scarlet-X is almost entirely the same on the outside, I should think so.

correct... all the cases for the Epic will fit the Scarlet.

 

[Jarred Land]

1. Will this be in the store sometime between now and then, or do you mean 'shipping in small numbers to hand-selected customers'?

2. Will it be a pure dumb mount with no aperture control (i.e. no use with G lenses) until such time as the software is finished? Guesstimate timescale to software being finished enough to give at least manual aperture control? And I promise not to use any number given as a guesstimate to beat you about the head if you're late on this

3. Will there be a cheaper alloy version of the Nikon mount, intended for Scarlet, as you've already done with the Canon mount?

4. In... hopefully just about a couple of weeks, maybe more depending on my shooting schedule, check your snail mail at RED for a biggish package. You've earned it ;-)

Mike

Will not be in the store until December. It is a smart mount with full aperture and auto focus control as well as VR if the lens supports it.

 

[Nik Harper]

correct... all the cases for the Epic will fit the Scarlet.

Oh great, this is awesome news! i figured that was how it was. Just had to make sure.

 

[Andrew Gentle]

Will not be in the store until December. It is a smart mount with full aperture and auto focus control as well as VR if the lens supports it.

That's good news! Is RED likely to offer customers with Scarlet-X orders which haven't shipped when the mount hits the store in significant numbers the option to swap the mount on their Scarlets from Canon to Nikon and pay the difference? I don't own any Canon lenses so having a Nikon mount from the outset would be ideal in my situation.

Best idea is to get your order in before the price goes up at the end of year and go with either the canon or PL mount... as the other mount options will not be ready in package/upgrade form till after the new year.. given the price increase, you end up paying less for two mounts and get your camera sooner than you would if you waited to buy a brain with just a Nikon or Leica-M mount.

EDIT: I guess this answers my question, depending on when things ship.

 

[Albert Frates]

On Scarlet? No. You are getting everything we can squeeze in that box for this price with the specs we posted. If you need 4.5K, but a used RED ONE or an EPIC.

Jim

Based on your reply Jim, and the "Backorder" status of the Red One MX on the Red Store. Is it safe to assume the end of brand new Red Ones? If so then phew.....I sold mine just in time for the Scarlett upgrade...now just to find a way to hang onto my Red Pro Primes