Scarlet and Steadicam?

[Terry VerHaar]

I have been wondering... it looks like the Scarlet brain is likely to come in at around 5 lbs or slightly less (as the Epic, at 5 lbs., may be just a little heavier than Scarlet). If that is the case, I'd love to hear from experienced Steadicam (and other stabilizer system) operators about how this camera might "fly" on the various "affordable" units available. I love the idea of being able to use something like a Merlin (with the vest) but with a limit of 7.5 pounds, is it likely the Scarlet can be configured to make this limit by moving things off-board? Any guesses on how much the fixed lens is likely to weigh?

Most of the sub-$3000 stabilizer units seem to limit weight to around 10-12 pounds. Any thoughts about whether these might work with the Scarlet? Can it make the weight limit?

This is a very open-ended question so feel free to comment. Any info to stimulate thinking and discussion would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Zac C]

When Joseph and I interviewed Ted, we stuck the epic on J's Steadicam Pilot, and if he were to balance it out, it could fly the Epic quite nicely, this config, was nearing the limits of the Pilot, but get a small Nikon on there, or the Awesome Mini-Primes, and you'd have a nice small setup for the Pilot/Scarlet combo

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Great input, Zac. Thanks for sharing the experience. It looks like that config had several modules on it too. I imagine you could lighten it up a bit from there.

 

[Rick Burnett]

So I've been curious about this too and have been sending out a few questions to people. I believe I have narrowed down what I would like to try to this:

http://www.camotionllc.com/

It's top limit is 8lbs so I was waiting to see where the fixed sat with the standard load out.

I had looked at the merlin, but I liked the design of the blackbird more. I also looked at the Flycam I believe it is called, the 5000 and the 6000 but after watching a lot of videos, I am still not convinced of either setup being that amazing. What I LOVE about the blackbird is the adjustments and levels in the plate.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

So I've been curious about this too and have been sending out a few questions to people. I believe I have narrowed down what I would like to try to this:

http://www.camotionllc.com/

It's top limit is 8lbs so I was waiting to see where the fixed sat with the standard load out.

I had looked at the merlin, but I liked the design of the blackbird more. I also looked at the Flycam I believe it is called, the 5000 and the 6000 but after watching a lot of videos, I am still not convinced of either setup being that amazing. What I LOVE about the blackbird is the adjustments and levels in the plate.

Rick -

As luck would have it, I got a chance to try that particular unit out at NAB. It seemed OK - much like the Merlin, but one concern I have is flying that much weight (maybe 7 - 8 pounds or more + the weight of the unit itself) without any sort of vest/brace system. Seems like it could get a little shaky and might be limited as to the time you could comfortably fly it.

I have a Steadicam JR which was great with my old Canon GL1 (about 2 1/2 pounds) but I haven't used it since I bought my JVC HD110 (which is about 7 lbs at its leanest). I have always had this preference for Steadicam as a brand because, true or not, I was under the impression that Garret Browning had some particular patented "magic" in the gimbal and counterweight system of the Steadicam that others haven't been able to copy because of those patents. Anybody have any insight into that?

 

[Rick Burnett]

I totally agree. There is a distributor in town that sells the blackbird so I was going to go check it out, but I really need the Scarlet first The difference in prices are so extreme and all over the place, as are the results on the web with a lot of them.

I agree, carrying 10 pounds around isn't going to last for long!

 

[Subhadip Sen]

I have a feeling we are going to be surprised by how light the Scarlet 2/3" is. My guess is <5 lbs for the Scarlet 2/3" Fixed. The brain itself will probably be < 2 lbs. Just speculation there. I won't be overly surprised if the Fixed ends up being 3 lbs or so. I think we forget how tiny these things are!

 

[Stephen Strangways]

There are a few details which give a true Steadicam an edge over the competition, IMO. Patents on the original basic design have expired, but some of the nice little refinements along the way are still patent protected.

I believe one of those patents is the iso-elastic arm. This allows you to boom the arm up and down 28 inches (the Pilot and Merlin arm) and get the same excellent stability anywhere in that range, rather than just at the very centre on most other arms.
And in my experience, very few arms match the performance of the recent iso-elastic Steadicam arms. The single-section arms especially perform quite poorly by comparison.

Other niceties:
-Sleds are designed for easy balance adjustment, and can be dynamically balanced.
-The Pilot and Zephyr allow the addition of counterweights to increase/adjust inertia.
-Camera stages that allow fine adjustment just by turning a knob, no locking and unlocking needed.
-The socket block is an adjustable connection so you don't end up leaning at an awkward angle that eventually becomes painful and injurious to keep the sled at the proper distance from your body.
-The gimbal is sublime.

My personal experience was working with a Glidecam owned by someone else, and trying out the Varizoom Aviator.
Once I tried the Pilot, however, it was the clear decision. I also chose that over the Merlin vest & arm for a few of the little niceties of adjustability with that sled, and the fact that the skills I would be practising would transfer over to the larger Steadicams as the design was essentially the same.
Once he had a chance to try it out, the Glidecam owner I knew immediately ordered a Pilot for himself.

Hopefully, the fixed-lens Scarlet will fit perfectly in the Pilot's weight range!

One last thing: I took the 2-day Flyer workshop, and I would highly recommend that as something you should do before or very shortly after you get a Steadicam, before you form any bad habits that you'll need to break later on.
Bad habits can degrade the quality of your footage, and can lead to injury... I have a colleague who borrowed a Steadicam, and with no experience, failed to set it up properly and hurt his back quite severely.
At the very least, read through Jerry Holway's Steadicam Operator's Handbook.

 

[soren k jensen]

always, always...

always, always...

always take a workshop. Or two. Flyer will work fine. Archer will be luxury.

 

[Zac C]

Great input, Zac. Thanks for sharing the experience. It looks like that config had several modules on it too. I imagine you could lighten it up a bit from there.

There are no modules on that rig, just the brain, redmote, Bomb EVF, handgrip and lens

 

[Nick Gardner]

There is also no FF, no filters, no video transmitter. Those are all things that will be on any camera used for an actual shoot.

Nick

 

[Zac C]

There is also no FF, no filters, no video transmitter. Those are all things that will be on any camera used for an actual shoot.

Nick

You could still go bare bones if you had to shoot with a pilot, its not like you'd bring something less than a Steadi Flyer for an actual film shoot.

But for indie films, I can see going bare bones

 

[Rick Burnett]

Why would you put a follow focus on a steady cam setup? Also, since this is Scarlet, if you are using an electronic lens, wouldn't you just use the remote and the electronic focus racking?

Which brings up an interesting issue. It sounds to me, someone needs to make a plate or something on the vest so you can transfer the touch screen and mount the redmote so you can adjust those without touching the camera.

That's pretty awesome.

 

[Zac C]

Why would you put a follow focus on a steady cam setup? Also, since this is Scarlet, if you are using an electronic lens, wouldn't you just use the remote and the electronic focus racking?

Which brings up an interesting issue. It sounds to me, someone needs to make a plate or something on the vest so you can transfer the touch screen and mount the redmote so you can adjust those without touching the camera.

That's pretty awesome.

I assume he was meaning a Wireless Follow Focus.

And if you were usin the 2/3 inter, then you might just need it :biggrin:

 

[DCC Erickson]

When Joseph and I interviewed Ted, we stuck the epic on J's Steadicam Pilot, and if he were to balance it out, it could fly the Epic quite nicely, this config, was nearing the limits of the Pilot, but get a small Nikon on there, or the Awesome Mini-Primes, and you'd have a nice small setup for the Pilot/Scarlet combo

Now that's one happy camper!

 

[Rick Burnett]

I assume he was meaning a Wireless Follow Focus.

And if you were usin the 2/3 inter, then you might just need it :biggrin:

Ahhhh!

I wonder if red is going to have a wireless follow focus unit that talks with the brain and redmote for manual lens. That would be a VERY nice addition for some I am sure.

 

[Zac C]

Ahhhh!

I wonder if red is going to have a wireless follow focus unit that talks with the brain and redmote for manual lens. That would be a VERY nice addition for some I am sure.

This wouldn't be possible without something stuck onto the Focus Ring, thus Every other WFF has that domain, RED need not to enter the Wireless follow focus arena

 

[Lee Saxon]

There are no modules on that rig, just the brain, redmote, Bomb EVF, handgrip and lens

True although you could take off the top handle (probably not much weight reduction) and the EVF (probably pretty heavy).

 

[Zac C]

True although you could take off the top handle (probably not much weight reduction) and the EVF (probably pretty heavy).

The Top Handle weighs more than the EVF! Crazy I know

 

[Terry VerHaar]

This wouldn't be possible without something stuck onto the Focus Ring, thus Every other WFF has that domain, RED need not to enter the Wireless follow focus arena

It has been my understanding all along (but I might be wrong) that you will be able to pull focus with the Redmote and without any external FF device. It seems that there has been much made of the fact that the electronic lens mounts and lenses (including the fixed) made this possible, along with zooming and changing aperture (although I am less sure about the latter one).

Am I dreaming?