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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and F3 pointed at the same scene. Footage inside.

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Timur Civan said:
I will try that workflow, though i dont see why its different than adjusting white balance in RCX with the dropper. Or you could look at the RGB waveforms and make them even.
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Hi
There are many approaches to this, and they can all work if you know what you do.
Look at Michael Cionis examples.

Basically it is the
"WB and go for it" approach - which works really well!

The second is more like:
"preserve all data and do not introduce extra noise or risk channelclipping (especially in the red channel under tungsten) in the development of the files"
Which would translate into something like developing at cameranative settings into EXRs or 16-bit DPXs for CC and VFX.

I have come to take a rather practical approach to this.

1st - depending on production and budget...
I teach a lot of photographers and post people to use the R1/Epic a lot like a video-cam on steroids these days, with quick turnaraounds and excellent results.
You get 90% of the potential for 10% of the effort...
Simple. Quick turnaround. Great results.
Enjoy the extreme latitude (not DR) of the cam, as to how wide in the exposure of essential stuff like skintones, actually work very well.
Expose so that it looks good. Then it probably is... :)

Then there are the productions that really want to push it, where I work with the DP and post people to recognize and familiarize themself with the sensor and its quirks and treat it like a filmstock.
Most of these productions have ended up shooting the camera "flat" allmost totally independent of light conditions, and the post process have taken off from there. With really amazing results.
This is a more knowledge/testing/time/workflow-heavy approach, but the results can be really surprisingly stunning.

Being a pragmatic, I often use elements from both approaches, when I am personally in charge of the productions. Not all shots gain from the "take no hostages" approach. Only those that are either dynamically or noisewise challenged. If there is enough light for the exposure, and there is nothing challenging the image in the top, why not play it simple.
I rarely (but as allways, the significant word here is "rarely" not "never") set WB bellow 4400 or above 6400 kelvin, as I see that beyond those points noise is introduced/accentuated differently/more significantly, and channels risk getting too squeezed in the top for my liking for further grade.

OTOH
If it works well. I like it. You can finnish many projects off just in RCX, if all you need is primarygrading, and the conformtools in RCX have matured immensly in a very short while. It does surprise me a bit that the Adobe guys haven't used this approach a lot, while waiting for "proper color tools" in PP.

Simply put. There are many approaches and considerations, and there is not one religiously "best" way to approach color and DR on the RED cameras.
But simplicity offered is a good thing to get through, as the voodoo-tricks often are based on hearsay, lack of knowledge and give funny results.

As to this test, I like it, but I havge some comments... :)
As I have run a bit of tests on the F3 and the RED cams as well...

1st off, the F3 became a camera and not a toy with the LOG option.
Good!

Still the exposure latitude for the Epic/Scarlet is incredible. You can expose all the way untill clipping, without killing off tonality and messing up channels. I have seen this on no other camera so far. How low you can expose skin, is more a matter of taste... Clipping is a very true and hard reference... But to my taste, the lower exposure of skintones on the Epic by far "overniced" the F3.

The F3's two upper stops before clip, did not look very nice to me, and was not a place we felt like putting critical "good looking" information.

As long as you don't really challenge the sensor/technology, and expose a bit fat and narrow, the cameras probably will be able to give you very good and similar results.
And that's the good thing these days. Finally videocameras are becomming basically "ok and useable", rather than "ouch, thread carefully or the image will break" able tools to use.
Me likes.


But simply put:
The variables are many and often uncontrollable.
Find what works well for you with a given camera
Stick to that
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Gunleik (conforming and 1st lighting and running out for VFX 24 episodes of a R1 MX/M and some Epic material shot TV show as we speek) Groven...
 
Thanks Gunleik,

I think once i bought the red i got overly into the "goalposts" and less concerned with the goddamn picture. In the past i used to just make it look good and go. I think learning the "goalposts" is important but once you know it, just make it look good and go.
 
Timur Civan said:
About to set up for the reshoot.

If you have any requests, speak now. :)
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Macbeth chart in the shot, held next to her face for a tiny chunk of time please.

Otherwise it's a great test. Personally I don't need perfect controlled lighting because I don't get to shoot in those situations always - so I'm also interested in seeing which cam responds better to normal lighting of varied color temps... so everything you did worked well for me. Good stuff!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
If your talking REDVOLTS it's probably even less time but what about using a REDBRICK with a belt clip in a small backpack/camelbak? You could get 2-3 hours without much trouble and when one dies, quick change to another stored inside your bag. 6 hour days are long enough, how long do you shoot for?

Timur Civan said:
The day the scarlet records with no balck bars will be a great day! But iwould not use it for Doc. Think about it, the camera is 50w draw. By the time you power the Pix, the scarlet, etc, the size is huge, and the power requirement will need a battery change every 40 min.

I believe the EX1 is still the best doc camera, with the 5DmkII as a close second. documentary is a marathon of efficiency. Cinema is a power hog.
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Will Keir said:
Why did they close this thread? Blasphemy?
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No clue.

Probably cause it was taken out of context.

I'm proof reading the draft right now, and working with tom to get all of his workflow information correct. I will start a new thread.
 
Timur Civan said:
No clue.

Probably cause it was taken out of context.

I'm proof reading the draft right now, and working with tom to get all of his workflow information correct. I will start a new thread.
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Don't bother why would anyone on Reduser care what F3 pictures look like?
 
You may have to intercut them some day. Its good to know.

I am a longtime REDuser, im not doing this to troll. I'm doing this to enrich the knowledge base and perhaps help some people who may have to work with it someday. I find it odd that everyone is so up in arms about this. Jesus, never had so much friction for giving out free information.
 
i would rather intercut VHS
 
DVX user is the forum for this not Reduser.

And when you post unintelligent threads with uneducated tests without even performing a standard white balance on both cameras... Well you will get shit from educated people.

I very rarely chime in on "noise" but your tests were absolutely ridiculous and proved you clearly had no idea how to use a camera.

Good luck
 
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