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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and Dragon...

20,000 iso useable? :-) Is that asking Santa for too much? :-) I can't help myself, I loves the low light!
 
Well I'm kind of sick of the expectations and demands, and I'm not a RED employee! But I am an EPIC and SCARLET owner. Red will do what they do and knowing them any demands and expectations are met with the response they deserve. They said they have a path, take it at that and just wait. IMO I think that it will likely end up in a paid upgrade for Epic and another trade in program (like stage 2 & 3) just as we saw with the R1 but for Scarlets...kind of makes sense. Either way just get on with shooting!
 
Brian Merlen said:
Any upgrade path at all, whether its turning in my brains, boards, etc is cool by me (at any price point)! I would love to trade up whether its to an Epic or a Dragon...and I don't mind waiting for it, however long it takes. Its not like we don't have camera to shoot on now Red Team, take your time, no rush! We are happy to have an upgrade path at all is the truth... Much better then how Sony runs their ship. I heard an angry F3 owner yesterday talking about how hes only renting from now on, never buying a camera again. We truly appreciate that you guys don't make all our parts stop working every other model and appreciate the time you take to be green and also help us save some cash...
Click to expand...

++1
 
Hi Jim and Jared! I would love an upgrade option to Epic-x, as currently I need the higher frame rates more than I need the higher dynamic range, 6K and low noise. Although I would very much love those as well! I would love a two step upgrade option: 1) Scarlet-X to Epic-X 2) At a generous time frame down the road upgrade Epic-x to Epic-Dragon.

I say generous time frame, because I would prefer to not have to spend a lot of money in a short space of time! To be given the option to upgrade to Dragon later rather than sooner due to a short cut-off date for ordering, would be highly useful for me. I am an early Scarlet adopter (first night ordered).

Thanks very much for your incredible products!!!
 
It is about Scarlet and dragon guys, not scarlet and epic. If you want an epic X, just take it now. A scarlet with dragon sensor could (not to say will) do better than the epic X : better low light capabilities, better DR.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Being able to adapt to whatever you have, seems to me to be the greatest value
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Absolutely, Gunleik... Though I think some people are implying that they like high DR and low light for more options. Documentaries and Dogma style come to mind.
 
I understand what you are saying Gunleik it does appear like a lot of people are not happy with the scarlet as is. I'm more than happy with the current scarlet and it's capabilities, in fact it will be quite some time before the camera's limitations will show, as of right now what is holding me back from the best images I can produce with the scarlet is me, not the scarlet.

I'm just trying to get my opinion out there, that I would like to know there is a path I can take some day to the next gen camera/sensor. The funny thing is initially a year ago I was worried it would be a short run trade in program where I would have to have the money and get in line far before I would even need it just to ensure I get in on the deal. Now I know this may be unpopular but I wouldn't mind waiting 6 months or more until scarlet could get dragon, considering as of now I'm not sure I could even afford or justify the upgrade to dragon. Even then I would still love it if I could take more time to decide when to actually upgrade as it will all depend on my financial situation at the time, but RED is running a business so I understand if this is not a feasible option.

I would love to have the best sensor and features I can get, but in reality scarlet is more than enough for my needs for potentially the rest of my life.

Stay passionate!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
What I don't get is the desire to shoot with no light/contrast at all...
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I totally agree with you Gunleik. Some of the most striking cinematography has made use of high contrast between brightly lit parts of the frame and adjacent dark areas. Deliberately having a scene with limited dynamic range, but high contrast is often visually attractive. Having the option of wide dynamic range is great, but often the best looking shot will not be gained by trying to maximise it, all of the time.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
What I don't get is the desire to shoot with no light/contrast at all...
Click to expand...
Gunleik Groven said:
Being able to adapt to whatever you have, seems to me to be the greatest value
Click to expand...

Take it down a notch there cowboy. Sometimes you're shooting with available light, can't bring a large lighting package and want contrast and sculpting but using what you have available to you. Sometimes you're also shooting a live event where you aren't in control of the light. Sometimes you're out in nature or shooting street photography or... the list goes on and on. You have access to a grip truck with enough lights and the time to set them up. Good for you. That's one production style. The nice thing about low light sensitivity is that you *can* adapt to what is available to you even when what's available isn't enough to actually properly expose an image. Or maybe you have a special hookup where you can make the moon brighter on demand.

This image for instance is lit by the moon but has plenty of contrast. In fact the moon and the sun offer similar contrast.
http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/at...-joshua-tree-national-park-jtnov110983-xl.jpg

Greater dynamic range also gives you access to more creative freedom. Want to stop down for an image with less depth of field but shooting an interior? No problem! Want shorter exposure for less motion blur but without too much noise? No problem! Want to shoot high-speed without bringing in a 20k HMI? No problem! Want to shoot by candle light? No problem!
 
Evan Falbaum said:
My two cents. I just really want to trade up my Scarlet for an Epic :)
Click to expand...

Why??? How much you can get for core if you sale it? technically maybe 4-5 grand at max. Optimistically. In real - even less...

Should be about 3-4 days GIG to cover it at MAX. And relax.

Any other parts such as mount, side module or side handle you can use for decades! Even with EPIC -DXXX or whatever they make. Scarlet was just a lead to an EPIC - I mentioned this about a year ago. Even now having a lots of projects done with my Scarlet I'm not considering Scarlet as my production camera - it is more like R&D, workflow and pipeline training, and now, when price of the EPIC relatively adjusted I can get production camera and left Scarlet brain aside as backup or even b-camera if needed.

An of cause any sort of official trade-in program from RED would be great for RED users, but it will never happen.
 
I think a trade in can happen (if Red wants to be generous as in the past) but it won't be cheap. It may come out to more if you add up the cost of what was spent on the Scarlet and the trade-up charge.

Still think there should be 4 possible options:
1. Scarlet trade-up to Epic-X (pay $12,000-$14,000)
2. If possible - Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon crippled (5k, better iso, new sensor, pay $6,000-$8000)
3. If possible - Scarlet to Scarlet-D Full to match Epic-D (but this would be hugely expensive, pay $10,000-16,000 )
4. Scarlet to Epic-D (same as 1 but much more expensive, like option 3, pay $16,000)

It maybe cheaper but I'm sure there are some that would be willing to trade-up and many that prefer to pay a lot less. The happy ones don't have to upgrade :-)
 
There is only so many options for this thing as listed above, but I am sure something will work out for us guys...and if not I am saving for an Epic as a back up plan... that way i'm still covered...
 
If the REDRAY is 4k, and the best theater is 4k, Than why all the crazy fuss to go 6K? Ok...so you can compare it to 65mm film!! AWESOME!! This reminds me of the "my dick is bigger than your dick" argument. 4.5K , 5K 6K OR 8K....Unless your Peter Jackson how many of us are shooting content that will see an IMAX. I see people spending their life savings on the upgrade but are you actually shooting for clients that require it? Ok, the flip side to this may be...its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it right!.....thats true, but thats gonna cost a fortune! If we keep renting our cameras so damn cheap it will take years to pay the upgrade off instead of months.....hey thats an idea, why dont we all start raising our prices for rental or as a DP back to the way it was so we can afford this Dragon...LOL JUST A THOUGHT ;)
 
For me I probably don't need to shoot 4k for most of the stuff I do. I really don't even need a RED. But this is what I do for a living and have been for about ten years. The fact is that shooting and editing has become more enjoyable and rewarding ever since I got my Scarlet beginning of this year. It's not so much a boring chore anymore to go out and shoot some of the stuff that I have to. I love what I'm doing now more than ever and every time I come home from a shoot, that night no matter how late or how tired I am I pop in a red mag and start looking at what I was able to get. The only time I used to do that was when I was worried I f'd something up and had to check so I wouldn't lose sleep. Even though I'm still improving I'm no where near where I want to be. I want the upgrade because I want to keep this ride going and grow with my camera. Sometimes it's not about logic but about what feels right and what makes you happy. I like having nice shit. I don't drive a crap car. Why would I settle for a crap camera?. I've had too many in the past that have left me unfulfilled. whatever RED has planned for the upgrade for Scarlet I'm sure I won't be disappointed. Ok I may be a little disappointed if I have to wait too long for it, but that's my burden of being OCD.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Take it down a notch there cowboy. Sometimes you're shooting with available light, can't bring a large lighting package and want contrast and sculpting but using what you have available to you. Sometimes you're also shooting a live event where you aren't in control of the light. Sometimes you're out in nature or shooting street photography or... the list goes on and on. You have access to a grip truck with enough lights and the time to set them up. Good for you. That's one production style. The nice thing about low light sensitivity is that you *can* adapt to what is available to you even when what's available isn't enough to actually properly expose an image. Or maybe you have a special hookup where you can make the moon brighter on demand.

This image for instance is lit by the moon but has plenty of contrast. In fact the moon and the sun offer similar contrast.
http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/at...-joshua-tree-national-park-jtnov110983-xl.jpg
Greater dynamic range also gives you access to more creative freedom. Want to stop down for an image with less depth of field but shooting an interior? No problem! Want shorter exposure for less motion blur but without too much noise? No problem! Want to shoot high-speed without bringing in a 20k HMI? No problem! Want to shoot by candle light? No problem!
Click to expand...


Thanks, sure!
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Take it down a notch there cowboy. Sometimes you're shooting with available light, can't bring a large lighting package and want contrast and sculpting but using what you have available to you. Sometimes you're also shooting a live event where you aren't in control of the light. Sometimes you're out in nature or shooting street photography or... the list goes on and on. You have access to a grip truck with enough lights and the time to set them up. Good for you. That's one production style. The nice thing about low light sensitivity is that you *can* adapt to what is available to you even when what's available isn't enough to actually properly expose an image. Or maybe you have a special hookup where you can make the moon brighter on demand.

This image for instance is lit by the moon but has plenty of contrast. In fact the moon and the sun offer similar contrast.
http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/at...-joshua-tree-national-park-jtnov110983-xl.jpg

Greater dynamic range also gives you access to more creative freedom. Want to stop down for an image with less depth of field but shooting an interior? No problem! Want shorter exposure for less motion blur but without too much noise? No problem! Want to shoot high-speed without bringing in a 20k HMI? No problem! Want to shoot by candle light? No problem!
Click to expand...

A bit harsh, don't you think? If you checked out Gunliek's threads, he shoots in available light. He shoots deliberately. Let the shadows fall where they may. I believe he was saying that we sometimes shoot neutrally cause we are scared like bitches. I do it all the time, cause I suck. I am a bit insecure, but I feel that in time, once I get to know the lenses and Red system, I will get a touch more confident and not think too much about fixing in post. But for now.... Thank god for Redcode Raw, High DR and fixing in post. Great learning for me.
 
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