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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet 8x Fixed Lens Photo

Kevin Olsen said:
I don't think they can just house the fly-by-wire components in a conventional lens housing that easily (not yet at least :smile5:)
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Well, I don't know, I think there is no reason why it should not be possible with an electronic mount, Canon does so (agreed, the price point seems higher than Scarlet 2/3: iris control, focus control, zoom control, plus manual rings for all three. Looks like a "lens housing" to me:


http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykxzn8e

I just wonder how the fixed lens goes with "obsolescence obsolete".
 
Pierre T. said:
Well, I don't know, I think there is no reason why it should not be possible with an electronic mount, Canon does so (agreed, the price point seems higher than Scarlet 2/3: iris control, focus control, zoom control, plus manual rings for all three. Looks like a "lens housing" to me:


http://preview.tinyurl.com/ykxzn8e

I just wonder how the fixed lens goes with "obsolescence obsolete".
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1. The focus control on these Canon lenses is obsolete. No stopping point and much to sensitive. You can go from 1m to infinity (and beyond) within maybe 60 degrees.

2. The fixed goes with "obsolescence obsolete" as you can keep your viewfinder, CF Module, sidehandle and all the other modules that you've bought and shop for a new sensorbrain instead of buying everything in a new system. Also, you have the choice to not buy the fixed lens and get the cinema version with the lensmount of your choice. Try that with the XL-series.
 
Jason Madeja said:
what exactly does fly-by-wire mean?
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We don't know all of the features yet, but pretty much it means fully electronic control of lens functions, manual and auto focus, manual and auto iris, zoom, maybe automatic focus tracking and other programmable features too.
 
Andy Roberts said:
Did everyone see this...? That shows some great progress if you ask me.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37011&page=4
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It shows a lens with that is missing two of the controls zoom lenses need to have, if you ask me.

Requirement for an ergonomic zoom lens:
Focus, zoom, and iris rings WITH HARD STOPS on the lens.

The Z7U has the nicest lens (ergonomically speaking) of the sub-10k camcorders that I've tried (although the iris ring does not have hard stops, that's the only let down).

For documentary shooting especially, having all three controls on the lens is essential, IMO. For example, the dinky little iris knob on the HVX was more of a pain because it was on the side than because it was dinky. And zoom rockers just don't do it for me (even on very high-end ENG zooms).

So, colour me disappointed. Here's one point where RED is moving backwards against the trend of having more ergonomic lenses on budget cameras (eg. EX-1, Z7U).
 
Iris?

Iris?

Well without a good iris control, this camera is practically useless for a lot of people, it should be more a movie camera and less a still camera, iris control it's crucial on the lens or near by the left hand. LCD control is impossible on pan or any other non controlled light situation.
 
It is a rare situation for me to change iris settings during a shot. I don't like to see exposure shifts. I generally meter for highlight and shadow to determine the contrast range then pick a single exposure setting that works for the scene no matter where the camera is pointed. Since Scarlet will have about twice the typical dynamic range of any sub 10k video camera, this technique should work even better.

However the ring on the fixed lens is an encoder that can be assigned to focus, zoom, or iris according to Jarred.
 
Charles Angus said:
Requirement for an ergonomic zoom lens:
Focus, zoom, and iris rings WITH HARD STOPS on the lens.

The Z7U has the nicest lens (ergonomically speaking) of the sub-10k camcorders that I've tried (although the iris ring does not have hard stops, that's the only let down).
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You've obviously never had the pleasure of working with the JVC GHY-700U/-100U series camera with the kit lens. They both have three rings (focus/zoom/iris). Very nice ENG style camera's to work with.
 
Charles Angus said:
It shows a lens with that is missing two of the controls zoom lenses need to have, if you ask me.

Requirement for an ergonomic zoom lens:
Focus, zoom, and iris rings WITH HARD STOPS on the lens.

For documentary shooting especially, having all three controls on the lens is essential, IMO. For example, the dinky little iris knob on the HVX was more of a pain because it was on the side than because it was dinky. And zoom rockers just don't do it for me (even on very high-end ENG zooms).
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To each their own...according to their needs.

Those Scarlet users who feel they need more rings, and want to stick with an all-manual workflow simply need to buy one of the Scarlet models that accepts detachable lenses. These workers aren't the core target market of the fixed lens Scarlet anyway.

I don't want to cross-post here, but my recent posts on the October 30th Announcement Feedback thread itemize my feelings that the fixed lens Scarlet, its lens, and features will have extensive use in mobile documentaries, and a variety of other non-hardlined EFP genres of production.

Here are some links to my posts on that thread:

http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=133 (my post #1325)

http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=134 (My post #1331)

Scarlet and Epic are convergence cameras - where technology from the stills, TV/video, and cine worlds are converging. There are/will be people with backgrounds in all three of those industries buying these cameras. Consequently there will be a lot of different approaches to using the various camera models. There is no need to try and fit a round peg in a square hole. The fixed lens Scarlet will be particularly adept at mobile non-hardlined EFP production, and also stills. It will not be particularly suited to cine style production, so for those who want more rings, manual everything, matte boxes, follow focus units, and a cine crew workflow, its really simple - just buy and use one of the detachable lens models of Scarlet or Epic and go out and have it your way.

You're a veteran in this industry Charles. I'm sure you'll easily figure out which of the new camera models is best for your needs, accessorize and use it the way you want/need, and be real happy with it. The rest of us will do the same. That's what's cool about how modular, adaptable, and flexible these new camera systems will be - all of us can be happy :)
 
Steve Gibby said:
The fixed lens Scarlet will be particularly adept at mobile non-hardlined EFP production, and also stills. It will not be particularly suited to cine style production, so for those who want more rings, manual everything, matte boxes, follow focus units, and a cine crew workflow, its really simple - just buy and use one of the detachable lens models of Scarlet or Epic and go out and have it your way.
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I totally agree with your second point, Steve. The fixed lens Scarlet is not a cam for cine-style shooting.

I'm not sure I agree with your first point, though.

The point I was trying to make earlier (perhaps with a little too much vitriol...) was that this cam falls short, ergonomically speaking, when compared to the cam I currently use to shoot to shoot run 'n' gun style documentary stuff (the Z7U).

Even the Z7U felt a little big covering Critical Mass last weekend in Toronto (a cross-town bicycle rally), when I had to carry it with me on my own bike. I was looking forward to a smaller, higher quality camera than the Z7U for extremely mobile production, and thought the fixed-lens Scarlet sounded perfect, but now I'm not so sure.

I'll definitely give this thing a shot, and I'm prepared to be surprised (in fact, I hope I'm surprised - honestly), but it seems to me like RED is ignoring the hard-won ergonomic lessons of 30 years of ENG cameras.
 
I understand your position Charles...

I think the fixed lens Scarlet will require many to re-think their ergonomics and utilitarian concepts, and potentially re-adjust their field techniques a bit. The camera itself will be pretty small. I'll resist the urge to make it bigger in size, but test out a variety of RED accessories (2x, WA converter, etc.) and 3rd party gadgets to see what works well with it.

I should be on of the first to get one of the fixed lens Scarlet, and give it some field trials. You can rest assured that I'll torture the heck out of it and report my impressions of its utility and ergonomics here and elsewhere.

IMO we have some fun times ahead with fixed Scarlet :thumbsup:
 
Well I'd say the fixed 2/3" could still be a bit cinematic, don't you think?

The manual focus could be replaced by the "touch focus system" which might end up being just like a remote FF. You can then still choose between manual zoom or iris which should be enough for 95% of all situations. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong)
A mattebox could be "screwed on" because the ND filters are included in the lens already. Or you use a standard mattebox. I mean if you can put them on a VDSLR why not on the fixed lens.

Sure, you are of course limited with the accessories etc. but compared to what is available now in that price range I'd say it's a huge step towards cinematic style in a pocket :)

Steve Gibby said:
I should be on of the first to get one of the fixed lens Scarlet, and give it some field trials. You can rest assured that I'll torture the heck out of it and report my impressions of its utility and ergonomics here and elsewhere.

:thumbsup:
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Can I be your assistent for a day please?
 
Felix:
I'm not saying you won't be able to get some very cinematic images with fixed lens Scarlet. In fact, IMO in the hands of good shooters this camera will probably generate some stunning images. Yes, you can trick the fixed lens Scarlet out with a MB, etc. if you really want to - I won't though. I'll keep it as small and mobile as possible to play to its strengths...but than again that has been my approach to setup and use of my RED One cameras, so that shouldn't surprise anyone :)

I hire assistants (and entire crews for my productions) all the time. If I'm shooting in Europe (which I've done many times), sure, I may hire you...
 
Charles Angus said:
I totally agree with your second point, Steve. The fixed lens Scarlet is not a cam for cine-style shooting.
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I don't really agree with this. Using the zoom and iris controls in shot are generally pretty rare when shooting cine-style, so I really don't really see this as a problem. Even if you wanted to change the iris or zoom while using the lens wheel for focusing, you could still assign the buttons on the handle or on the REDMOTE to do this...

Not to mention that Deanan also said that it "should be possible" to make remote follow focus wheels that plug into the REDMOTE (or maybe even function over a wireless connection) so you could have one or two of them in addition to the lens wheel.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I don't really agree with this. Using the zoom and iris controls in shot are generally pretty rare when shooting cine-style, so I really don't really see this as a problem. Even if you wanted to change the iris or zoom while using the lens wheel for focusing, you could still assign the buttons on the handle or on the REDMOTE to do this...

Not to mention that Deanan also said that it "should be possible" to make remote follow focus wheels that plug into the REDMOTE (or maybe even function over a wireless connection) so you could have one or two of them in addition to the lens wheel.
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Hmmm...I see no reason to jump through all those hoops with the fixed lens Scarlet when you can simply use a detachable lens Scarlet, the cine lenses of your choice, matte box, follow focus, use the procedures you posted - and go cine-style all the way. Fact is, with a fixed lens and all the other EFP friendly features of the fixed lens Scarlet, it is primarily designed for non-hardlined EFP and stills production. I see no reason to do all those workarounds with it. If you want to shoot cine-style - just get one of the other Scarlet (or Epic) models, which will be much more usable in cine-style, and plug it into your workflow.
 
Does anyone know what type of lens can deliver the most flexibility for DOF, on the Scarlet interchangeable? Or deliver the shallowest DOF?
 
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