Scarlet 5k at speed

[Ryan De Franco]

My understanding is if the chip fails the EPIC test it becomes a Scarlet. This means they are not physically capable of pushing that much data through by definition.

Exactly. So some boards, sensors and integrated electronics are barely below Epic spec, while others are just above the Scarlet requirements.

You might get a sensor that can handle sustained Epic-level readouts, and several boards to match, but one board that is barely capable of 4K at 24fps. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I don't know why Red would give some Scarlets a set of boards that are all "almost Epic." This means each camera has a hodgepodge of reject parts, each with varying abilities.

If Red is going to up the spec on the firmware, they will have to be dead sure it will be dead reliable. In the race against Sony and Arri, there is little room for error. One beta firmware upgrade that gives everyone 4K 48 but results in unusable footage or unstable cameras would be a huge blow to Red's reliability. They have to be certain anything they make available works across the board--

Even if only 5% of all Scarlets can't handle 4.5K wide screen, the Scarlet will never have 4.5K widescreen.

 

[Mestizo Devon]

If Red is going to up the spec on the firmware, they will have to be dead sure it will be dead reliable.

Kinda like the beta firmware we have been using???

Its your choice to use the beta firmware.

 

[Michel Rabe]

Even if only 5% of all Scarlets can't handle 4.5K wide screen, the Scarlet will never have 4.5K widescreen.

If they can do 4K at 30fps then they will do 4.5K WS at 30fps.
4.5k WS for president!!

 

[Eric Santiago]

Educate me please.

If the Scarlet did get an upgrade, wouldn't the EPIC get one too?

I'm talking firmware of course not Dragon.

Or is the EPIC really maxed out for options?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Exactly. So some boards, sensors and integrated electronics are barely below Epic spec, while others are just above the Scarlet requirements.

You might get a sensor that can handle sustained Epic-level readouts, and several boards to match, but one board that is barely capable of 4K at 24fps. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I don't know why Red would give some Scarlets a set of boards that are all "almost Epic." This means each camera has a hodgepodge of reject parts, each with varying abilities.

If Red is going to up the spec on the firmware, they will have to be dead sure it will be dead reliable. In the race against Sony and Arri, there is little room for error. One beta firmware upgrade that gives everyone 4K 48 but results in unusable footage or unstable cameras would be a huge blow to Red's reliability. They have to be certain anything they make available works across the board--

Even if only 5% of all Scarlets can't handle 4.5K wide screen, the Scarlet will never have 4.5K widescreen.

I still can not see why the scarlet would not be able to shoot 24p/25p 5K Wide. Since that is less pixels than full 4k. If RED opened that up I think that would kill the competition flat out. I think then shooting widescreen features at 5k and use multi cams, One epic and a few scarlets would be really cool. And I do not think it's "stepping on the epic's toes" it's a small thing compared to the 5K FF 98 fps that epic offers.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Who knows what goodies build 4 is going to bring.

 

[Maurice Branscombe]

I still can not see why the scarlet would not be able to shoot 24p/25p 5K Wide. Since that is less pixels than full 4k. If RED opened that up I think that would kill the competition flat out. I think then shooting widescreen features at 5k and use multi cams, One epic and a few scarlets would be really cool. And I do not think it's "stepping on the epic's toes" it's a small thing compared to the 5K FF 98 fps that epic offers.

This was said in another thread recently, and I agree. If Scarlet has more potential power than a R1-MX, and the R1-MX is now end-of-lifed, it makes a lot of sense for RED to let the Scarlet truly fill that place in the RED hierarchy. With a slight unlock of the Scarlet's abilities it would make it a much more competitive camera, and make it far more useful for Epic/Scarlet multi-cam shoots. It wouldn't hurt Epic sales - but it would boost Scarlet sales.

Of course, we are only assuming that firmware unlocks of new features are possible on the Scarlet ASICs, let alone something that RED wants to spend time on...

Who knows what goodies build 4 is going to bring.

Well, this is the thing, isn't it!

 

[Caden Nash]

What is also nice is ACCESS to the full sensor for motion!

Agreed. That's the biggest downfall.

 

[Bryant Bell]

Perhaps with the new faster SSD card (the Red 512gb one) a Scarlet would be able to shoot 24fps at 5k? Or even 24fps at 4k but sampled from the full sensor? Is this something we can test or does the firmware need to be adjusted first?

 

[Damian Mizzi]

Perhaps with the new faster SSD card (the Red 512gb one) a Scarlet would be able to shoot 24fps at 5k? Or even 24fps at 4k but sampled from the full sensor? Is this something we can test or does the firmware need to be adjusted first?

Bryant, the new 512GB SSD is not neccessary for 24FPS 5K. All Epics shoot at that resolution on all the other 64GB, 128GB, 256GB cards. The new 512GB is faster as it is meant for lower compression ratios at faster frame rates in 5K, and ofcourse longer running times.

 

[Damian Mizzi]

Agreed. That's the biggest downfall.

Completely. 100% with you on this. This is where the competition wins completely I believe. When I bought my Scarlet, I knew about the crop factor issue. I wasn't happy about it, but I thought I'd live with it. The problem is that technically at 2K you have nothing. If Scarlet captured those 60fps at 2K, but those 2K are downsampled from the full frame, or at least from 4K, that would be really usable.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

I'm afraid this would only add insult to injury for the unhappy Epic owners who feel attacked by lower pricing. While I find it hard to agree with anyone other than those who purchased in the last 90 days, I do respect Red's intention to keep the lines separate by defining Epic as the 5K camera.

Next week I lost a regular rental because the client wanted to shoot 5K for center extraction--it's the price paid for owning a Scarlet, or rather the price we didn't pay, since our camera is so much cheaper!

On the other hand, I would shoot 5K WS on every job that calls for 2.39:1, simply because music videos and short films aren't concerned with Michael Cioni's taller deliverables.

One thing I like about RED is that they do try and empower the filmmaker first and foremost. Regardless of how much money they have. If the Scarlet is made to come closer to the Epic and eventually the two segments merge, that is where RED is different from other brands. It is narrow minded to think that RED doesn't care about its existing customers. They just keep on geting better, that's all. Both by improving tech and improving production line costs. So if you look at your investment in terms of the films you make, it works out rather well. If you look at it for the rental market's perspective, it will still look good as people will still pay the price to rent an Epic that does 5K for a lower price than a Sony that does 4K for a higher price. And if this means rental houses can provide more flexible deals, this makes them more competitive too. They may even make more money as the Epics will ne highly sought by a much larger number of people, instead of sitting on a shelf every other day. Competition is good for the end user. Competition is good for rental companies.