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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet 4.5k

Mike P. said:
I don't think it's an "entitlement" problem, so much as a 'it should it be possible, right?' question. It's just peculiar that 4.5k = 4480x1920 = 8.6mp/frame, while 4k = 4096x2160 = 8.85mp/frame. Realistically it should be easier to process/capture 4.5k than 4k. Benefits being two fold: it'd give you even better spacial resolution (especially when downscaled or compared to cropping) and, better still, it'd give you MX's full 1.3x frame (just cropped to ~2.35:1)…

I've been fooling around with 4k WS at 5:1 and there is a noticeable different… barely, but noticeable. It's a double down; better/lower compression applied to less pixels = double improvement benefits. Definitely had me salivating for some 4.5k love…

Saying 'if you want more, get a $10k Dragon/Epic upgrade' is just as unfair as expecting the Scarlet to do 4.5k… I think most people are not *expecting* any more from Scarlet, they're *hoping* for it. Better still, 4k WS at 36fps was never intended, but here we are two years later and it actually works well. It's more resolution than 3k (even when cropped to 16:9), and it's more framerate at "4k" than Scarlet-users were ever expecting.
Click to expand...

Yes!
 
Matthew Scott said:
Heck yeah I'd love 4.5K! and 48fps 4K! Why not? We don't want to shell out 10K for extras (not just yet, we are still learning). We are not selfish, or un-appreciateive...we are at the bottom of the barrel of RED and it would be amazing to give the "new" MX entry level camera (Scarlet) another awesome kick in performance. No harm in voicing that or asking for more, so don't let the hardcore Red fans and Epic owners stop you.
Click to expand...

Definitely nothing wrong with voicing your desire for something. I just think it's rude and kind of nonsensical to insinuate that RED are holding something back. It's not inconceivable, but to speak as if it is a foregone conclusion is... weird to say the least.
 
Rude? Meh.....I think it's totally plausible. From a business point of view it makes perfect sense not to include certain features on the Scarlet to make sure their lower end products don't creep on the upgrade path, right? I think it would be nonsense to so adamantly accept the fact that a Scarlet cannot do what an Epic can do with some firmware tweaks. Now that I've opened that old can of worms again, just let me clarify that all I'm saying is:

How awesome would it be for the scarlet to have 4.5K WS unlocked? And 4K 48fps? Not that I'm in any way unhappy with my camera, just supporting the OP's thoughts, and the fact it we shouldn't just keep quiet and be happy with what we have as a sign of allegiance and respect for RED. I respect RED and promote their camera's everywhere I go. I love my Scarlet every single day and plan on loving it for years to come.
 
Well, let them unlock Epic specs while they're at it. Some cameras might be able to do it depending on the quality of the components, others might crash, which wouldn't be very appropriate for a pro cinema camera.

It's all speculation, which is what makes these kinds of threads hilarious.

If people said: 'In the event that Scarlets are universally capable of 'x' spec, would it suit your business model to enable that in the next firmware'

Plausible and rude aren't mutually exclusive.
 
It seems like people here have more objection to a reasonable demand than red itself. I don't know why Scarlet 4.5 or 5k demand bother those who have nothing to do with your demands :-).
Rude... is to object, criticise or suppress someone's opinion or a reasonable demand.
Keep demading guys and Red is the company that will listen because other companies are already trying to achieve what you guys are demanding out of Scarlet and its price range. I fully support your demand.
It is extremely tyring to see time and again illogical suggestions that pay $9000 and upgrade your Scarlet.
Those who are demanding for Scarlet to be 4.5 or 5k already know upgrade path.
Good luck and Red please listen to these demands. Those who want Scarlet to be 5k upgrade it for free or may be charge $1000 and upgrade it because there are Scarlet owners who don't want dragon and don't want Epic.
 
Reasonable demand... that's what I am saying, there's not a lot of reason in it, it's unreasonable on three counts: 1) it's unreasonable to demand something you don't know can be achieved 2) it's their business, they run it how they want 3) the deal is through, they don't have to do anything further and they'd be upholding their contract.

Objecting to an opinion is part of normal discussion and not rude. If you offer your opinion or belief, you offer the opportunity to have it challenged. I can't suppress any opinions, I don't have the ability to delete posts.

Normally if you want a new camera you have to pay for it.

RED already know customers want more, they don't need periodic reminders.

I don't mind these threads, but I'd hate to see RED just announce one day that they're not going to be doing firmware for previous gen cameras or upgrade them. Remember RED were the single company offering affordable cinema cameras and forced everyone else to change.

If you're unhappy with your product just sell it and buy another camera. Easy.
 
Brett Harrison said:
Reasonable demand... that's what I am saying, there's not a lot of reason in it, it's unreasonable on three counts: 1) it's unreasonable to demand something you don't know can be achieved
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Sorry Brett but I do not agree with this portion of what you stated. And how would you know it can not be achieved? From what I get RED is constantly updating firmware and along that process may involve tweaking code and tweaking code may have been what resulted in us getting a bump up to 36 frames per second at 4K on Scarlet. (I mean none of us even imagined that in itself was possible). So don't tell me something can or can not be achieved unless you work for RED and their firmware coders. Now RED wanting to do it is another story. Sure it doesn't make sense for a company to spend more money on squeezing more out of an older camera but if it comes as a byproduct of overall improvements to all of the camera line the I would be all for it.
 
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Matthew Scott said:
Heck yeah I'd love 4.5K! and 48fps 4K! Why not? We don't want to shell out 10K for extras (not just yet, we are still learning). We are not selfish, or un-appreciateive...we are at the bottom of the barrel of RED and it would be amazing to give the "new" MX entry level camera (Scarlet) another awesome kick in performance. No harm in voicing that or asking for more, so don't let the hardcore Red fans and Epic owners stop you.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!
 
Just remember when RED stated that debayering could ONLY be done on the CPU... It's all about business not because the hardware can't. Nothing wrong with that though.
 
Samir Patel said:
Sorry Brett but I do not agree with this portion of what you stated. And how would you know it can not be achieved? From what I get RED is constantly updating firmware and along that process may involve tweaking code and tweaking code may have been what resulted in us getting a bump up to 36 frames per second at 4K on Scarlet. (I mean none of us even imagined that in itself was possible). So don't tell me something can or can not be achieved unless you work for RED and their firmware coders. Now RED wanting to do it is another story. Sure it doesn't make sense for a company to spend more money on squeezing more out of an older camera but if it comes as a byproduct of overall improvements to all of the camera line the I would be all for it.
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Of course, everyone is for it naturally.

I don't know it's not possible, but the burden of evidence is always on the one making the claim. If you're demanding they do it you're making the tacit statement that it's possible. To demand the impossible is an error of logic, isn't it?

The point is that if you're making a demand you need to know, and what I do know for sure is that you, me and OP don't know.

No hard feelings guys, I didn't mean to come off as arrogant, I just feel like this demand on RED is basically illogical.
 
shatek king said:
No One is equating anything im just saying that the world is about to be in a 4k frenzy as u can see with those items..
Click to expand...

I Agree man 4k technology is definitely getting cheaper by the minute! I really want to see how close these 4k dslrs are getting to my Scarlet as far as image.
 
Not all 4K is created equal. Much like 1080p, you're going to find a 'pro' standard and a 'home' standard
 
Mike P. said:
I don't think it's an "entitlement" problem, so much as a 'it should it be possible, right?' question. It's just peculiar that 4.5k = 4480x1920 = 8.6mp/frame, while 4k = 4096x2160 = 8.85mp/frame. Realistically it should be easier to process/capture 4.5k than 4k. Benefits being two fold: it'd give you even better spacial resolution (especially when downscaled or compared to cropping) and, better still, it'd give you MX's full 1.3x frame (just cropped to ~2.35:1)…

I've been fooling around with 4k WS at 5:1 and there is a noticeable difference… barely, but noticeable. It's a double down; better/lower compression applied to less pixels = double improvement benefits. Definitely had me salivating for some 4.5k love…

Saying 'if you want more, get a $10k Dragon/Epic upgrade' is just as unfair as expecting the Scarlet to do 4.5k… I think most people are not *expecting* any more from Scarlet, they're *hoping* for it. Better example, 4k WS at 36fps was never intended, but here we are two years later and it actually works well. It's more resolution than 3k (even when cropped to 16:9), and it's more framerate at "4k" than Scarlet-users were ever expecting.
Click to expand...

Exactly...a few years back I could see the reason for not having 4.5K 2.4:1 but RED One MX had 4.5K and its really not something that is going to dig into Epic Dragon or Even Epic X for that matter! I think two more options should exist: 4.5K 4480x1920 2.4:1 WS mode, and 4K Anamorphic mode which would be 2816x2304...the latter I think is not that much to ask for at all because it doesn't require as much processing power and using anamorphic lenses on digital sensors is different that film because it doesn't improve resolution as dramatically, when you stretch it out to 5632x2304 2.44:1~ its not like its actual 5K because you can't add something that wasn't there, its still essentially a 3K maybe 3.5K~ image....its still good quality though...reason I argue for anamorphic other than being an anamorphic fan boy is that I know of people trying to shoot anamorphic on their Scarlets and having to fudge around with 4:3 frame marks in various modes and having issues getting everything right in post, its just making life harder for those that are going to do it anyway but would prefer a proper mode. I don't own a Scarlet so I'm not an "entitled Scarlet user" just a person that tries to look at things with reasonable parity.

To those Scarlet owners feeling threatened by 4K going consumer...Come on...you spent $10K+ on a camera system you owe it to yourself, your crew, viewers and your bank account to know that RED 4K is allot different than 4K on some crappy 2/3rd inch sensor in AVCHD! Same went for 1080p, do you really think an iPhone 5S or even a decent consumer camcorder comes close to the quality of say a Sony F35 with an uncompressed stream? Of course not! Except now the gap is bigger with RAW 4K, you can do so much with it! People have done so much with so much less camera too
 
I am perfectly happy with the way the Scarlet is now. I have always found the formula they use kind of puzzling on how they get the framerates. 4K has 4 times the data as 2K, so I do not understand why in 2K you could not run at 96 fps. (Maybe compression methods?)

Anyways would I like to se 4.5K WS at 24 fps, absolutely. I don't think it will happen though. Now 4.5K at 18 fps?? It could work for landscape and old timey film emulation. Just saying.
 
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