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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCARLET 1080 with Higher Frame Rates

This has been a hilarious and entertaining thread to say the least. Thanks Shane for the laughs.
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
For any camera:
The mores options the better. Period. I don't think there is any more to say than that.
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Often yes but not always. To many options can over complicate a device, or can compromise it in some way. Designing a camera around modules can alleviate some of this, but it a compromise from some perspectives, part of deciding if RED cameres are for you is does a modular system suit you.
 
Oke you need to sell the Scarlet and buy another camera. Q: when you buy a car, do you act the same and go mail to the factory to make it your way for nothing...... If yuo want a extra spoiler you have to buy one....
 
Once again, Red users making friends by alienating people for making a genuine request. Always the same people jumping down the throats of other members with lower post counts.

Shane, I for one thought it was a fair point. The Scarlet is limited and crippled. Anything to make it more appealing would be a good thing IMO.
 
Shane Duckworth said:
Why are you taking this so personally? It's a flawed system. It just isn't what it could be, and you are okay with that.
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Shane I think a lot of Scarlet users are taking your comments personally because (whether you know it or not)...you are making it personal by categorically calling the Scarlet "flawed". The Scarlet has always been exactly what it pretended to be: a 4K Raw cinema camera with limited higher frame rates. Just like the C300 is what it pretended to be: an 8bit cine version of the 7D.

Personally speaking, the Scarlet has transformed our business at Astronaut because all our clients know we shoot "on RED". They don't ask what model RED we have. They just want Pro Res or DNX quicktimes as part of their deliverables (when we don't do the edit): how we make QTs (Red Rocket, Recorder) is a process they never see or care about. So for us delivering 1080 has neen been an issue, but I understand that not everyone's business is the same, so I'm not suggesting that workflow hasn't been a concern for you. What I am saying is that there are no categorical answers here, as so much of a camera's value depends on your needs and perspective. As a post house that shoots, the Scarlet has been a monster hit for us. But I can see that as an Operator and DIT, the Scarlet has perhaps been a burden for you, and therefore "flawed". But this remains your experience, and not necessarily that of every Scarlet user.

Paul Schneider said:
Producers, by and large do not think about 4K, RAW or amazing color science....ever.
They think money and time, and at least in the commercial world they are the ones to rent (and largely choose) the cameras. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to change.

I think Alexa rules commercial shooting 10-1 for couple reasons:

1. the HD prores is cheap and easy
2. The crews are used to (and enjoy) the simplicity of the cameras.

Red could take minor and relatively easy steps to address both of these issues and potentially make their cameras more viable in the process. Whats not to like about that?
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Paul I think you are right on many counts. However I do think 4K will become more and more relevant as it takes off as a standard. Right now 1080 is still King, but who knows if that's the case even a year for now. Youtube already accepts 4K uploads, and it wouldn't surprise me if clients start requiring 4k deliverables for the web, and 1080 transcodes for broadcast.

In regards the Alexa and workflow, I think this has been well covered on RUser. Shane's concerns about the simplicity of 1080 deliverables are shared by many other Red Users. Jarred's recent admission that RED is working on the "Jule Box" (aka the Toia Module) and that it will be announced soon (maybe at NAB) should alleviate a lot of these concerns. I personally wouldn't buy an external recorder until we hear what RED has to say at NAB. RED's module may even be priced to compete with these recorders, who knows.

Here's Jarred's original post, btw:

Jarred Land said:
The "normal" proxy module is coming after the Meizler remember... Hopefully before my birthday. Before everyone keeps freaking the fuck out, please remember that we still are a small company and can only make so many things at the same time...
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In short. Red knows. They are working on it. Give em a chance. They clearly have a lot on their plate (Dragon, etc). And Jarred's birthday? It's May 30th.
 
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Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Often yes but not always. To many options can over complicate a device, or can compromise it in some way. Designing a camera around modules can alleviate some of this, but it a compromise from some perspectives, part of deciding if RED cameres are for you is does a modular system suit you.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I initially went with RED was this promise of modular. My thought process was you can dress it up or dress it down. Well RED's module is all but rumors. I've had my SCARLET for a year and the EPIC has been around for close to 2 years. Where are all these modules you speak of? Your modular argument is flawed, just like RED. It hasn't happened, at least not when it should have. The PRO I/O was ushered in with a thud. The MEIZER is going to be released before a more practical and useful module is. We needed them 6 months ago. We needed them before Dragon. But guess what REDUSERs? RED doesn't care about the customers they already have. They only want new ones, with promises of 20 stops DR and a huge slap in the face price cut. Guess our equity in RED doesn't matter much to them, just as long as we don't dump our packages and get on the F5 and F55 train. So defend RED to the death. Its a flawed system, that could have been great, but the SCARLET will go down the same historical path the D20 &21 did, flop.
 
Robert Berger said:
Oke you need to sell the Scarlet and buy another camera. Q: when you buy a car, do you act the same and go mail to the factory to make it your way for nothing...... If yuo want a extra spoiler you have to buy one....
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I would love to just dump my Scarlet, but RED slashed prices on new cameras, making my camera worth less than it was. Big slap in the face. Partially why I'm bitter towards RED.
 
Robert Berger said:
Oke you need to sell the Scarlet and buy another camera. Q: when you buy a car, do you act the same and go mail to the factory to make it your way for nothing...... If yuo want a extra spoiler you have to buy one....
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I've been waiting for my "factory spoiler" to even exist, so that I could buy one. But the fact remains that it doesn't and the one that will hit the market costs more than the car.
 
Welcome to the new economy. Luckily talent is still worth something.

Shane Duckworth said:
I would love to just dump my Scarlet, but RED slashed prices on new cameras, making my camera worth less than it was. Big slap in the face. Partially why I'm bitter towards RED.
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Shane Duckworth said:
I would love to just dump my Scarlet, but RED slashed prices on new cameras, making my camera worth less than it was. Big slap in the face. Partially why I'm bitter towards RED.
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Imagine if you'd got an Epic - you'd have lost a lot more (half it's value in one fell swoop). Scarlet's drop was marginal. It's sad that bodies dropped/devalued so much, as Red seemed a good bet for holding value. But, all good things come to an end.

It does sound like you'd be better selling what you have now (before prices drop again due to other announcements etc) - just a thought.
 
Bob Gundu said:
You can't have downscaled footage and have RAW. It just isn't possible with any camera. If you want 1080 scaled down, just use an external recorder.
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Thats both true, and false .. actually, you can downsample and then record a pseudo raw image..i think one of the new sony (or maybe canon) cameras do this when recording 2k to keep data rates lower, but still use the full field of view (ie, full sensor -> downsample -> save bayer pattern from resulting 2k)

if you apply no colour science during this process.. its still pretty raw I guess
 
Have I missed an announcement? Didn't Scarlet drop about a grand in value? And, for early adapters, just basically back to pretty much what we initially paid for it? Epic drop was significant, but Scarlet? Regardless, isn't the logical answer not to "dump" your camera, but to shoot the shit out of it to get value out of it? It will still produce amazing images even if they started giving them away. I don't get it.
 
Lliam Worthington said:
Regardless, isn't the logical answer not to "dump" your camera, but to shoot the shit out of it to get value out of it?
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He would, but no one wants a Scarlet on any professional shoot. At least that's my experience. I haven't even come across a rental house that stocks a Scarlet, so that's saying something. So no one wants his Scarlet on a shoot and he can't sell it because it isn't worth selling. Yeah that's a conundrum.
 
Richard_JP said:
He would, but no one wants a Scarlet on any professional shoot. At least that's my experience. I haven't even come across a rental house that stocks a Scarlet, so that's saying something. So no one wants his Scarlet on a shoot and he can't sell it because it isn't worth selling. Yeah that's a conundrum.
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Few rental houses stock scarlets as they might as well stock Epics. From a rental houses point of view the scarlet eats into the lower end of epic rental packages at the scarlets top end abilities while the lower end of the scarlets range is often better fulfilled by C300s etc.

The scarlet is an owner operator and in house camera not a rental house camera mostly.

If its not being shot on any moneys worth getting back, and you can still sell a scarlet brain for a fair amount, or keep it for the trade in scheme for a dragon epic.

So options are;

1. Leave it rotting and do nothing with it.

2. Buy a 3rd party recorder for it and get a fair number of jobs that want prores fresh out of the camera.

3. Wait for REDs pro res options and get them.

4. Sell the R3D workflow to the clients.

5. Sell the scarlet, take the financial hit and buy something new.

6. Keep the scarlet for the trade in scheme for dragon epics.

There are also a number of combinations of the above. Personally 2 and 4 possibly followed by 6 are in my plans (4 then 6 is my preferred route but 2 may enter into it).

Price drops are always a pain but also fairly inevitable. The Epic drop was very heavy, but the scarlet one was far from unusual.

The scarlet is quite a niche camera and the camera we got is effectively a camera put together from parts that weren't good enough for the Epic so have been dialled back to create the scarlet. For many jobs there are much better cameras.
 
Richard_JP said:
He would, but no one wants a Scarlet on any professional shoot. At least that's my experience. I haven't even come across a rental house that stocks a Scarlet, so that's saying something. So no one wants his Scarlet on a shoot and he can't sell it because it isn't worth selling. Yeah that's a conundrum.
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
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