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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SALT test...

Jannard

Jannard

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We think this test is a great idea... just have one concern.

If the future of RED is 5K and a 32mm image circle, how will you shoot footage that shows how well lenses will do at this new resolution and image circle? It is easy to show on a lens projector, but there are no available sensors to test with. Rapid focus and illumination falloff is a key part of whether a lens that looks terrific at 4K can hold up at 5K.

I'm sure this has been considered for the test but I haven't heard how this will be dealt with.

Jim
 
Im not interested in seeing the lenses on a monitor that shows a limited (sometimes false) representation.
I will be looking at them on a projector that I will calibrate myself, prior to the tests.

I can see where test footage would be useful and is more "real".
But a projector is far more controlled with very few variables.

On the ambitious side, I'm sure we would be glad to run the tests through an Epic camera provided by RED.
 
Matthew Duclos said:
Im not interested in seeing the lenses on a monitor that shows a limited (sometimes false) representation.
I will be looking at them on a projector that I will calibrate myself, prior to the tests.

I can see where test footage would be useful and is more "real".
But a projector is far more controlled with very few variables.
Click to expand...

Matthew... you are starting to sound like me. :-)

Actual test footage is what a lot of people want to see though. Just curious how that will be dealt with.

Jim
 
Good point...that's why you're the MAN...oh boy...more debates
 
Jannard said:
Matthew... you are starting to sound like me. :-)

Actual test footage is what a lot of people want to see though. Just curious how that will be dealt with.

Jim
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure that can be taken as a compliment.
One thought that crossed my mind was using a PL mount Canon 5D.
With 35mm full frame sensor, nothing would be left out.
But of course... Again the test would be insubstantial due to the technical limitations of the 5D.
This would work fine in theory, but would not give any indication of optical quality, ease of use, etc, specific to a RED.
Which is where all these lenses are going to end up. :thumbsup:
 
personally, i want to hear how these lenses do on the equipment we have available now, for the camera i have available now. the extra information of how we think they will look on the larger imagers is great, but what i really need to know now is how they look on s35, so i can work with the tools that i have now.

we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
 
Jim, how much of the Mysterium X, 30x15mm 5k sensor do you expect to be dedicated to look-around ?

Or is the sensor 5.5k and 5k is the used image area ?

Epic X would be welcome of course...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
does the face that a lens projector is projecting in a direction that is never used (that is, reversed) matter? should light be projected like a lens is used, front to back?
 
lennywood said:
personally, i want to hear how these lenses do on the equipment we have available now, for the camera i have available now. the extra information of how we think they will look on the larger imagers is great, but what i really need to know now is how they look on s35, so i can work with the tools that i have now.

we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
Click to expand...

If you make a buying decision (expensive one) based off of what you have today and not tomorrow, you might be opening the door to a major disappointment... shooting or selling. Renting is a completely different story.

Jim
 
sorry i am not a tech geek, but sure that i upgrade to epic 5k its interesting for me to know that rpps do cover the sensor without issues....and more interesting which of the other lens sets do not.

hs t1.3
zeiss t2.1
up t1.8
mp t1.3
cooke s4

i guess if some of the high brands can get problems at 5k, its a good selling point to clients to go with RPP and it is an advantage to have the rpp`s along with epic.

(thinking of the ultra oldschool die hard film dops who just shot with red, but only with their favorite lens set.)
would be cool to have an unbeatable argument :)
 
What we have learned is that some lenses just won't cover the 5K field, some lenses will cover the field but focus and/or illumination will become an issue, and some more than cover the filed at full resolution and illumination. Some of those are based off still lenses and have breathing issues.

Matthew may have more to say on this topic, but I would encourage everyone who is contemplating buying (or renting) lenses to learn as much as you can to avoid any disappointment.

Jim
 
Jim,
It is important for us to consider the 5K frame but unless you do bring by an Epic or scarlet we'll have to make do with what we have. I think the primary concerns for the subjective part of the test will not be related to frame coverage but to the individual lens's image rendering. IE focus fall off, bokeh, breathing tonal range, contrast and such. All of these will be the same at 4k as 5K. Matt can determine if the corner resolution is limiting with the projector. Also if a DP really loves a particular set of lenses he can just window down to 4.5K on the Epic can he not?
 
Evin Grant said:
Jim,
Also if a DP really loves a particular set of lenses he can just window down to 4.5K on the Epic can he not?
Click to expand...

I will ask the same thing too, will it be able to do that ?
 
Evin Grant said:
Jim,
It is important for us to consider the 5K frame but unless you do bring by an Epic or scarlet we'll have to make do with what we have. I think the primary concerns for the subjective part of the test will not be related to frame coverage but to the individual lens's image rendering. IE focus fall off, bokeh, breathing tonal range, contrast and such. All of these will be the same at 4k as 5K. Matt can determine if the corner resolution is limiting with the projector. Also if a DP really loves a particular set of lenses he can just window down to 4.5K on the Epic can he not?
Click to expand...

Evin... windowing down is the solution for sure. How far depends on the lens. Some will need to go no higher than 4K.

I agree with the image part (bokeh, breathing, contrast) except for the focus falloff... which tends to be one of the major issues going from 4K to 5K. But as long as everyone has ALL the pieces to make their own informed decision, it is all good.

Jim
 
RED ONE opened the door to a lot of lens choices... basically all the old (and very old) inventory of cine lenses out there... This helped a lot of people get onto the RED bandwagon, and eased the entire process.

Isn't the new breed of RED cameras (which is definitely moving towards 5k as the new cine acquisition standard) a bit limiting as to what lens option you now have (compared to the RED ONE)?

Yes, you can always crop. But that means crippling a bit the system, not taking full advantage of what the camera can offer (again, compared to RED ONE).

I am just mentioning... I know perfectly well we need 5K for a true 4K finish. The trade-off is you now have much fewer lenses that can take advantage of the camera's full capabilities.
 
t
eastco said:
RED ONE opened the door to a lot of lens choices... basically all the old (and very old) inventory of cine lenses out there... This helped a lot of people get onto the RED bandwagon, and eased the entire process.

Isn't the new breed of RED cameras (which is definitely moving towards 5k as the new cine acquisition standard) a bit limiting as to what lens option you now have (compared to the RED ONE)?

Yes, you can always crop. But that means crippling a bit the system, not taking full advantage of what the camera can offer (again, compared to RED ONE).

I am just mentioning... I know perfectly well we need 5K for a true 4K finish. The trade-off is you now have much fewer lenses that can take advantage of the camera's full capabilities.
Click to expand...

That's why the RED ONE will never be obsolete.
 
Awengert said:
t

That's why the RED ONE will never be obsolete.
Click to expand...

That's not what I meant. 4K cropped from EPIC/SCARLET can (and probably will) be better than RED ONE.
 
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