Russian | Soviet | USSR Lens Survival Guide

[paulcurtis]

Paul, soviet M39 is for SLR, not for Leica rangefinders, so how would you adapt? If you just put Mir-1 on your Leica mount, you'll have only macro focusing ability.

All white ones and black Tair-3 300mm are M39. Only Mir-20 20mm is M42, and Mir-10A have that interchangeable backs which can be both M42 and M39. If a Soviet lens has "A" in its name that means it has swappable Adapter mount, it's like T-mount.

Ah, i understood M39 to be Leica screw mount, is this different then? Is the flange distance different?

EDIT, yes it is, i looked in more detail at the article below...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_lens_mount

To convert screw mount to normal Leica M mount is just a small adapter, the screw mount flange distance is greater than the M mount so no issues with adaptability. I have a bunch of M39 range finder lenses here.

It's the 20mm that was my first objective, i like wide lenses!

thanks
Paul

 

[Ilya O.]

To convert screw mount to normal Leica M mount is just a small adapter, the screw mount flange distance is greater than the M mount so no issues with adaptability. I have a bunch of M39 range finder lenses here.

It's the 20mm that was my first objective, i like wide lenses!l

— Paul, do you think the adapter from soviet m39 slr (45.2mm) to Leica M exist? Haven't ever seen.

Well, so good look with 20mm Find Mir-20M from the seventies, they are good.

 

[Lee Kelly]

Great info.

I have the following kit;

MC MNP-47m 20mm f2.5 Multicoated but flares really nicely and seems more than sharp enough. Focuses the 'wrong way' but I dont mind it. Close enough focus to throw out the background in a nice way, especially for such a wide lens. Even though it MC its colours seem to match quite well with the rest of the kit, I mean its not like anything jumps out negatively in real world situations. Sometimes we pixel peep and fixate on things that nobody would really notice. Looks like it has 6 blades.

Helios 28mm f2.8 which I believe was Japanese and not well liked. I actually forgot I had this and have not used it so cant comment on it. I am sure it will be fine. 6 blades and like all these, a nice long focus throw.

MC MNP-24M 35mm f2 I found this one and snapped it up because I only had a 2.8 version originally. Wanted that extra fraction of speed and shallower depth. Its another 6 blade and MC but I like it.

MIR-1 37A f2.8 roct51268-72 This one is slower but uncoated as far as I can tell, although the MC lenses must be fairly simple coats as they dont really appear to have a huge colour shift? The rear element is 1/2 the size pretty much of the f2. This lens has a cool feature where you can set the iris to 'declicked'

Helios 44-2 58mm f2. I have a couple of different versions of this lens that were original hacks by Richard Gale at Dog Schidt Optics. They have some funky internal colour and separation etc with 9 blades, declicked and really fun to play with. Although they have the funk inside, I still dont mind using them along with me other old russians and they stand out in a good way.

Jupiter 9 85mm f2 with 15 blades uncoated and gorgeous. Have the MC version but it was dropped and the front filter thread was damaged. Also gorgeous.

TANP-11A (tair) 135mm f2.8 20 blades gorgeous lens but my copy has a bit of oil on the blades and it is a little sticky. Elements are clean but I can see the oil on the blades. No big deal at this stage as long as it wont drip onto the glass!

Theyre all M42 mount and easy to convert to EF via adapter and I love them because theyre beautiful and interesting. Some of these lenses have a protruding front element when racking focus so screw on filters are better than rod mounted matte box unless you leave space and block all light around the back of the matte box. I use my kit for short films and low budget shoots where a vintage look is preferred without the money to spend on super speeds or similar. Also for under $1000 to have a really nice little alternative prime kit with loads of interesting flare and spunk, as well as great bokeh and decent image quality/resolution, theyre hard to beat.

 

[Ilya O.]

Meanwhile, I got stuck with testing 70OPF5-1 40-240 f4.5-5.6 65/70mm CKBK film zoom I put it here for the sake of info and history.
Lens diagram and all aberrations grafs:

Setup:

At 100mm f~5, scaled to Arri 65mm resolution of 6.5K, ~55x15.6mm gate:

And the same, but 14K wide, ~57Mpix^-)

 

[Ilya O.]

JUPITER-9 85mm f2​

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Here is Jupiter-9 (m39 SLR mount, aluminum barrel, made by KMZ or LZOS till late 1960-s) lens diagram/scheme and overall look:

Jupiter is the Soviet name for Sonnar lens design family, created by Ludwig Jakob Bertele in 1929 (DE. 530,843; Brit. 350,323). Was computing easy that days? Bertele needed 3 years for calculations on ~3000 pages...
This particular Jupiter-9 lens was based on Sonnar 2/85 (7-glass version, ~1936), recalculated at KMZ by M.D. Maltsev to USSR glass range in 1948. Here's Sonnar (1929-1931-1932-1936) to Jupiter lens designs schemes evolution:

My Jupiter-9 is M39 SLR one, LZOS made, bare aluminum barrel. J-9 is designed even better than handy Helios-44, it is bigger and wider, fits hand nicely like a little barrel, the focus ring operation and overall handling is very cosy and smooth. Because of the 400g (0.88lb) weight, Jupiter-9 focus ring is more damped than the light Helios-44 move. Jupiter-9 has ~270deg. focus throw with the minimum focusing distance of 0,8m (31,5''). Filter size is 49mm. Jupiter-9 has no built-in lens hood like Helios-44 has, so be careful with the exposed front lens.

Aluminum Jupiter-9 is single coated and has 75% Transmission Coefficient so expect the actual T-Stop to be somewhere at T2.3.
White Jupiters from LZOS, like mine, have violet-purple coating so they tend to give warm green tint. Those from KMZ have deep blue & dark violet coating, so they give warm look more towards yellow/orange.

Unlike Helios-40 85mm f/1.5, a special lens of one shot with the character in the central sharp spot, wide open,:

I still choose Jupiter-9 to sit always in my bag because regular all-purpose 85mm should be universal and have neutral portrait look with classical smooth & calm bokeh. Besides, J-9 weights nearly 3 times less and pulling focus while shooting is a joy (Helios-40 is tricky due to the weak mechanics for such a huge chunk of glass).

Unlike Helios-44 58mm, J-9 85mm on s35 allows comfort to subject distance for the close-up shots. I tend to use J-9 on a tripod mostly: to nail focus when moving is close to impossible as the depth of field at f2-2.8 is very narrow at the distance to have such shots on a s35 sensor (last pic is on 36x24):

Jupiter-9 delivers everything you expect from a classic portrait Sonnar: at f2 it is mild, gentle, very creamy, unsaturated and low contrasty:

​

If you wanna go more expressed portraiture look, find later black Jupiter-9 (by LZOS) in m42 mount, they can be even multi-coated:

— so, that black ones exhibit lack of definition and has soft halation wide open. Some say this is due to wrong front lens position, a kind of production failure. It seems to be true, cause in Sonnar design front lens distance is of high importance for field curvature and spherical aberration (and we see it high here), compare early m39 J-9 to the black one:

Optically speaking, that is a defect (usually for that reason black ones cost cheaper), but who said we can not use it for even better women portraiture?:

Further compare of balck&white Jupiters shows that black one has more evident soap-bubble bokeh (a result of over-corrected spherical aberration) with sharper rings' edges, and — what is quite rare effect — has light rings moving OUTWARDS. For the 5k still pics and head to head test I follow you to Dmitriy aka Theage review here: http://goo.gl/2OqGgN

Many Soviet lenses (any Mir, Helios-44/40) have swirly bokeh around (feels a bit towards) the center while Jupiter-9 white has calm no-moving-out effect in bokeh:

​

Let's move further. Here again we have what I like in USSR lenses much: two lenses-in-one nature. At f2 we have already saw some portraiture, but what should sharp & punchy look lovers expect? Guys, close the iris to f/4+, add direct sunlight, and J-9 becomes a killer lens with zero distortion, CA and vignetting:

White Jupiters are quite flare resistant. When you get strong light straight into the field of view, J-9 gratifies you with the 3-color rainbow!

Picture taken by DP Nadezhda Solovyova.​

And last but not the least picture of gorgeous 15-blades iris, round at ant f-stop for natural out-of-focus area rendering:

Now let me show some footage. Here's short sequence from my doc shot entirely on Jupiter-9 LZOS wide open, and I'm sorry for the compressed HD only (RU seems to put incorrect time, jump to 16min18sec):

This piece is to feel how J-9 renders in and out of focus transition, turn on 4k playback for lesser compression (but it was shot in HD originally):

And the last take you've probably seen here earlier, but I put here for the sake of convenience. This show how delicate and subtle J-9 is on human's skin with the help of Schneider Digicon 1 filter (enable 4k):

 

[Ilya O.]

Friends, updated the thread with Jupiter-9 review.

I've being analyzing g-shorts links, and it shows that the majority of clicks are from Russia! Where are you, guys? Show yourself here please and post some samples here!

 

[Lee Kelly]

Does the m39 version easily adapt to EF mount? I know the m42 does.
I love those shots with the swirly bokeh giving a cool 3d effect.

 

[Ilya O.]

Lee, unfortunately there's no proper plugNplay solution. You can not go strait to EF from m39 SLR, no adapter (with infinity) exists. I soon will be making one, but as of today there's none.

People usually buy m39 to m42 plain intermediate threaded ring, than add m42 to EF adapter, — that works, but max focusing distance is somewhere from 5-15 meters only, no infinity.

So the next easiest way is to change to other or reduce the existing thickness of shimming ring by ~0.3mm to get 45.5mm working m42 distance (m39 flange is 45.2mm), search at YouTube. It's reversible non-destructive operation, but I would not do that since after that your front lens part with the iris preset ring and markings will be way off the right position, imagine focus scale is at top or 90deg left, and after the shimming iris rings will go down or some awkward hard to see position. If then you want everything right, there more works for the front like drilling new 0.8mm holes for the rings, repositioning them, and making new iris position dot...

Yes, indeed, people love Helios-40, Flicker it out. I find it's way overused by amateur photographers.
But again, it is very special lens. I would love to use it some day, but let's be realistic, the most effective way is to use it just once in a film, for very special meaningful shot...

 

[Vladimir Cazacu]

Any suggestions for a 28mm lens with similar swirly bokeh to the MC Mir-20, Mir-1B, MC Helios 44-6 and Helios 40-2?
The jump from 20mm to 37mm is a bit too much for most of my narrative work and I'm looking for something that will match the other lenses in my set.

The Mir 10A's bokeh is quite different from the rest of the lenses, same with the Zenitar-H 28mm and I can't seem to find anything else that would work well (other than the DSO 24mm wide adapter for the Helios 44-2, which is a bit out of my budget).

Cheers and thank you for putting together this thread.

 

[Ilya O.]

Hi there, Vladimir. I'm glad you like the topic!

Well, don't you think that bokeh of Mir-10A — which is 28mm F3.5 — is something of very little importance? Since you'll face it rare with that depth of field...

Or you said that you do narrative movies, you mean like fiction? Or a doc/tv series with the narrator? For the latter you might need Mir-10A's macro abilities (0.2m (7.87'') MFD) and for that I can understand your bokeh attention. If so, Mir-10A CAN actually deliver some subtle swirl, just take a look at these pics found at Flickr:

As for the swirl bokeh effect, it's not so easy thing, you know. Lenses known to be highly swirly can deliver ZERO effect in some circumstances. Can you believe that both shots were made using 'king of swirl' Helios-40 85mm f1.5 lens? Yes, same settings, both wide open, on a full frame still camera:

The same applies to Mir-10A, but to a much lesser extent since it is wide, and relatively slow lens. Generally it does not swirl, I agree. Yet, it can, check this same conditions bokeh shots, no swirl on the right:

So the swirl effect depends mainly on the object to background distance and background objects shape and light character (let alone lens optical formula, exit pupil cut-off, vignetting, spherical aberration and other opt stuff).

To sum up, I do not consider that Mir-10A has different than other Mirs bokeh. They actually of one generation, and that comes from its lens design, compare and notice the similarity in lens schemes and its groups (Mir-1, Mir-10, Mir-20):

Vladimir, you see, Mir-10 is just like Mir-1 but with more complex front group, two lenses added.

As for 20mm, Mir-20M here looks like not similar to the others, so the bokeh is expected to be different, but it is NOT. Mir-20M can be calm (left pic) and with a taste of roundness or swirl (on the right):

 

[Vladimir Cazacu]

Thank you very much, Ilya!

Your posts are a joy to read.

 

[Ilya O.]

welcome!

plz post too to enrich the thread.

 

[Ilya O.]

Tair-11 135mm f/2.8​

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Tair-11 lens diagram/scheme and appearance:

My Tair-11 is M39 SLR one (there's also black anodised later version), bare aluminum all metal barrel. All Tair-11 are KMZ made. Tair-11 is pretty long compared to Jupiter-9 85mm and quite heavier and thicker than Jupiter-11 135mm f/4. If you're lucky enough to get mechanically good copy with proper grease, you'll find the focus ring operation smooth and overall handling is comfortable. Tair weighs ~560g (1,23lbs). It has huge ~360deg. focus throw with the minimum focusing distance of little less 1,5m (59''). Filter size is 49mm. T-11 has little tube in front, let's name it a 'lens hood', so front lens is safe.

Aluminum T-11 is single coated, has only 4 glases (6 air-to-glass surfaces), so it has relatively high for a vintage prime 80% Transmission Coefficient, the actual T-Stop shall to be ~T3.1.
White Tairs have light blue coating so they tend to give slightly warm yellow tint.

Tair is a family name of original soviet tele lens design, it is very simple comprising 3 (sic!) lenses in its basic version: a basic tele doublet and a back meniscus compensator. Yet it's very effectively corrected for aberrations. Tair name is derived from the Al-tair (Arabic) star (aka Alpha Aquilae) without the article "al". This was inside Soviet tradition of giving space names for the optics (Sirius, Orion, Helios, Jupiter...).

Tair series is a result of World War II time efforts of David Volosov, chief soviet lens designer, and his collaborators at GOI (State Optical Institute) to calculate a fast tele lens for military surveillance in low-light conditions. USSR Patent 78122 was applied on 3rd November, 1944 (link here https://worldwide.espacenet.com/pub...C=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19481130&DB=&locale=en_EP ). So what's was new since tele doublets with back meniscus to compensate for astigmatism and field curvature were well known before? Well, the elegant and 'simple' innovation was in the very form of back meniscus: first, it should be very thick, and second, the difference between the miniscus' radii must be more than a half and less than three quarters of the its (meniscus) thickness. This find let Volosov introduce new type of 3-lens only Anastigmat since famous Taylor's Triplet (1893)! Anastigmat is a lens free of astigmatism, spherical aberration, coma and it has flat field curvature. Still, you can not control distortion with 3 spherical lenses.

That is why Tair-11 has 4 lenses to fight pillow distortion, chromatic aberration and gain more speed. By the way, do you happen to know that nearly all classic soviet tele lenses, both cine and photo, share the same Tair (4-lenses mod) design. Take a look at Tair-11, OKS1-150-1 150mm f/2.8, OKS1-200-1 200mm f/2.8 and OKS1-300-1 300mm f/3.5:

This does not mean that Tair-11 has the level of performance that OKS 150mm has, the latter being much sharper, but for sure they both would share some character (first that come to my mind is bokeh, and very smooth transition to-out-of focus).

So, Tair-11 133mm f/2.8 is a superb portrait lens with Crème de la Crème bokeh. There's hardly better lens in a soviet arsenal for women portrait. Check it out wide open, notice how smoothly it renders after the focus plane — look at the hair and fur collar pleasing diffusion to the left, to do so right click 'open in new windows' and pixel peep 5D Mark II 5.5K still:

Picture taken by DP Nadezhda Solovyova.​

Done? Now pay attention to the geometry of the bars (outer ones) at the background: despite the 4th element to correct distortion, there IS some, I'd say ~1% of positive pillow distortion at the edges of a full frame 36x24mm sensor. If you crop that frame to cine s35, there's hardly any seen, I assume ~0.3-0.5 a the edge.

All I said about Jupiter-9 85mm f/2 applies to the Tair-11, while the latter has even more creamy character, less sharp to my impression, and at the same time it has more contrast. I say and stand for it that Tair-11 is a bokeh king. It can swirl, and can not, it all depends on the subject to background distance, iris, and background object type:

Photo by Theage at theage.ru

Photo by Mike Parry at flickr.com

Photo by Emile at flickr.com

Photo by Mike Parry at flickr.com

Photo by DP Nadezhda Solovyova.

Photo by Vanila Balaji at flickr.com
​

What else, despite the lens formula, plays a major role in a boke shape? Shazam, Tair-11 rocks with crazy 20 (!) iris blades:

I just can not say better than Marc Smith in his brilliant must read review:

That’s correct – 20 blades – ensuring a perfect aperture circle throughout the steps. You won’t find a modern lens with that many blades and it shows the Soviet’s intent, at the time, to be a major player in the field of photographic optical equipment. These lenses were being produced at a peak in Soviet industrial success, right on the heels of Sputnik, and the build quality is evident even to this day.

Marc also made this delicate video, I find it very informative in showing Tair-11's look:

The only thing I do not like in Tair-11 (and in OKS 150-200-300 by the way), is that nasty saturated green/magenta chromatic aberrations before and after the focus plane. Luckily, it can be seen only in the harshest high contrast conditions, check Marc's video, 2nd part, where you see bridge sunset shots: all the railings and metal constuctions backlighted by the sun have that green outline.

Tair-11 flares in its own way of all soviet lenses, I'd say a special feature: it literally transmutes your character into a disembodied spirit:

Photo by DP Nadezhda Solovyova.​

Wow I found Marc has some similar findings, but vise versa, a statue becomes somehow alive

As I mentioned before, all vintage soviet primes share the same two-in-one nature, namely a definite character wide open but without that bad unusable softness. And Tair-11 is no exception. Close the iris to f/4+, and T-11 pops up with the details, and giving no excuse for excessive skin details:

Pixel peep all little hairs in new window this fullframe 18Mp still:

Photo by DP Nadezhda Solovyova.​

 

[Ilya O.]

Dear Sirs and Madams, Tair-11 133mm f/2.8 review delivered at last!

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Hi Ilya,

Thanks you for sharing your passion and your knowledge with us. It's one of the most interesting topic on reduser.
I would like to ask you if you know which russian cinema lens can cover the 8K helium sensor? Sean Keen was talking about the sovscope lenses on the other topic, but it's only anamorphic lenses right? I'm looking for spherical too.

Thanks

 

[Sean Keen]

Sovscope it's spherical lenses

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Sovscope it's spherical lenses

Okay I thought it was a form of cinemascope from USSR. Do you know any reference of thoses lenses ? It's hard to find

Thank you Sean

 

[Sean Keen]

Yes those lenses from USSR, damn hard to find, i have a set for sale)

 

[Ilya O.]

Greets, Malik.

I apperiate your thanks Plz post here if there's smth on the subject.

no no no, Sean meant SovScope-70 @70mm(65mm) lenses, 51,2x23mm frame size. They were not ever intended to be anamorphic despite the fact it has '-scope' in its name

But what's the frame size or image diagonal of 8K? Let's talk in millimeters, K numbers is of no use

 

[Ilya O.]

Malik, I have a 70mm wide format USSR Book for ya But plz do not ask me where to get those babies and what mount or adapter you need

so plz welocme bilingual (in Russian and in English) 70mm Soviet gear Book, it has some info on the soviet 70mm mass-produced lenses:

http://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_9Rua4iG1MraDV5UVZWVHZFaDQ/view?usp=drivesdk