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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RPP 18mm Flares

NormLi said:
Hey Roberto,

It my video you were talking about with those crazy rainbow 18mm flares and the Pink Teddy :)

Norm
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Norm, I know awhile back you posted some test shots that contained the rainbow flares, but have you come across the same affect in a practical shooting circumstance? To any degree that the footage was effected?
 
MichaelHalsell said:
Norm, I know awhile back you posted some test shots that contained the rainbow flares, but have you come across the same affect in a practical shooting circumstance? To any degree that the footage was effected?
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For standard narrative stuff without any blaring sun or lights down the barrel, I haven't really encountered it. But for music video type stuff, yes, it's easy to get those flares to show up. We did some tests with LED in the shot and they all caused the 50mm to flare alot with each little LED in the shot. There was about 8 LEDs in a line (just practical ones) and all of them created a rainbow flare at the same time in the shot.
 
Yesterday I saw a flare like it in "the gates" episode 3. Nights shots.

I don't know what type of lens, but i only can say that it look horrible to me.

I love flares but i hate this "the gates" rainbow effects.

Any of you know what sets of lenses "the gates" has?

Saludos,
Jose
 
Newton's Rings or Moire ?

Newton's Rings or Moire ?

This artifact is clearly not ordinary lens flare which is caused by internal reflection. This pattern of concentric rings resembles "Newton Rings" which are generally only visible under monochromatic light while testing an optical element against a test flat (or sphere) for correct flatness (or curvature).
If these are Newtonian rings, something in the lighting conditions is making them visible (meaning they are always "there" due to some flaw in the optical train). First place I would look is in the OLPF and IR cut filter pack. These are thin glass plates that could have become stressed during assembly, causing them to bend (at corners?).

Second possibility is moire. But I have never seen perfectly concentric moire without any "sawtooth" or buzziness. Software artifact ?

Should be a simple affair for RED factory to test your unit with and without OLPF. Trick will be exactly reproducing your lighting conditions.

My 2cents
 
Hey Norm, thanks for popping in. And thanks again for sharing your test, and real world experience.

Charles, I am not sure I follow. Are you asking it if could be stress applied on the OLPF while RPPs were mounted? Sounds extremely unlikely to say the least if that is what you mean.

It seems that to get such edge to edge sharpness, lack of distortion, speed, contrast, etc, etc, there was a trade off... which I guess is the visibility of these Newtonian rings.

I was hoping RED might find a solution, something like replacing one or two elements, and one or two pieces of the barrel mechanics, for a fee that made it worth while for many.

I am guessing the silence means they have moved on to other sets, which sounds like a good thing. We know they are working on RED Pro Anamorphics, and a few other focal lengths such as the 14mm (it was 14 right?).

Perhaps, down the line, the second generation of RPPs will have these missing (and some will rent 1st gen when they want rainbow flares). In the end what you get and what you pay makes them a fantastic deal, and gives everyone plenty of time to ROI.
 
Newton Rings

Newton Rings

The stress I refer to that could possibly be present in flat filter glasses (IR cut/OLPF) would be an artifact of their manufacture or possibly their manner of mounting inside the camera. I did NOT mean to suggest that the lenses are making contact with them.

It would surprise me greatly if the lenses themselves were the source of this problem. However, if internal stresses are present in some element or elements, and/or several elements are in contact with one another in a way that creates stress (e.g.: a cemented pair of elements not having congruent spheres), then perhaps the lens could cause this.

It will be an exercise in process of elimination to track it down and isolate it.

Best of luck.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Do you remember what scene that was? I just watched it.
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Its only in a few night shots, more exagerated at 19'38''

I don't know what lens it is. But i'm so interested.

Saludos,

Jose.
 

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I have to agree with Charles on this one (caveat: we spoke on the phone about it). It does resemble newton rings, which would lead me to believe it was originating from the lamination of the IR and OLPF filters. It's possible that the 18mm RPP just projects light at the proper angle and focus that when it passes the filter pack the rings become visible. This might not be so obvious on other lenses, ie they might not hit the magic formula.

I'm curious if both these cameras were MX or standard M knowing red changed the filter pack in the MX cameras.
 
I know what you are saying Julio and I am very curious to find out as well. But would you respond? And frankly the reason behind is useless other than to further our technical knowledge of optics which at this level would have very limited real-world use.

They don't have to respond. RPPs are a bargain, great lenses at ridiculously low prices. If they respond it is only a plus, not a necessary.
 
I am so frustrated to have invested around $25 grand in this lens set only to find out that they have this quite significant problem. It obviously doesn't exactly help getting the lenses rented out to make back the investment. I am similarly frustrated that NOBODY from RED is addressing this issue. Please!
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
I am so frustrated to have invested around $25 grand in this lens set only to find out that they have this quite significant problem. It obviously doesn't exactly help getting the lenses rented out to make back the investment. I am similarly frustrated that NOBODY from RED is addressing this issue. Please!
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It's not a significant problem, I've never had a case of it I could not easily cure with some grip work. I've seen the Optimo Rouge lenses flare in a similar way. Also not a serious problem with the Rouges.

The Red Primes represent a fantastic value in the cine-lens world.

Matt Uhry,
Stage 2, Black Island, Acton, UK
www.mattuhry.com
 
This thread is all speculation. There's not one poster who actually identifies a thing with these flares. Even the Gates comments are based on the assumption the show is shot with RPPs. It might be, where's the evidence? Stop griping if you don't know what exactly the gripe is about.

If you have the lenses, test them for it.
 
Jon B. said:
This thread is all speculation. There's not one poster who actually identifies a thing with these flares. Even the Gates comments are based on the assumption the show is shot with RPPs. It might be, where's the evidence? Stop griping if you don't know what exactly the gripe is about.

If you have the lenses, test them for it.
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Who said that gates used RPP?

Do you know that?, you are the first assuming that.
 
Jose Lomeña said:
Who said that gates used RPP?

Do you know that?, you are the first assuming that.
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Exactly, it's posted multiple times in this thread but was never said. Speculation.

The title of the thread is '18mm flares'. You're right Jose, I'm the one who said it.
 
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