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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RPP 18mm Flares

Can someone from RED chime in here? Or maybe Matt Duclos? It looks like RED has given us a phenomenal set of primes at a great price, but I do shoot into the sun a lot. I would just like to know if the rainbow flare shows up on all the 18mm lenses.
 
Probably is an issue of the lens aspherical design.

BTW, Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH. is a famous example of flare resistant lens :

flare.jpg

Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH. Flare is almost non-existant.
You really have to trick the lens to create flare.
See below. The sun is just outside the top left edge.

LINK>>>

But then a sort of "cine purist" DP would comment on this:

It's a still lens, slow and also Leica expensive.

But I would say don't forget this: Flare is almost non-existant.

Also is still cheaper than RPP 18mm T1.8.
 
I haven't seen an 18mm on a camera yet. I've bench tested several models but that won't show flares. Usually to simulate or cause flares, the light needs to be going the "correct" direction (as in, out the back of the lens instead of out the front like on a test projector) and you need the OLPF and sensor and whatnot. I assure you this isn't a coating issue but likely more of a design characteristic. I'll have a word with RED about this soon as I think I know the source of the characteristic. Don't doubt for one second though, that you are getting great performance for your money. Even Master Primes flare.
 
Rainbow flare?

Rainbow flare?

Matthew Duclos said:
I haven't seen an 18mm on a camera yet. I've bench tested several models but that won't show flares. Usually to simulate or cause flares, the light needs to be going the "correct" direction (as in, out the back of the lens instead of out the front like on a test projector) and you need the OLPF and sensor and whatnot. I assure you this isn't a coating issue but likely more of a design characteristic. I'll have a word with RED about this soon as I think I know the source of the characteristic. Don't doubt for one second though, that you are getting great performance for your money. Even Master Primes flare.
Click to expand...
That's all dandy- the lenses perform great but I've never seen a rainbow flare like this- something must be wrong...
I seriously doubt that anyone could consider it a "pleasing" phenomenon either....
Sometimes when you put gel filters in the back of the lens like the old cooke zooms similar rainbow appeared but that was caused by the gel...
I'm also sure that Red team is on top of this and will have a solution and/or explanation....
 
OptiTek said:
That's all dandy- the lenses perform great but I've never seen a rainbow flare like this- something must be wrong...
I seriously doubt that anyone could consider it a "pleasing" phenomenon either....
Sometimes when you put gel filters in the back of the lens like the old cooke zooms similar rainbow appeared but that was caused by the gel...
I'm also sure that Red team is on top of this and will have a solution and/or explanation....
Click to expand...

What is dandy? My post?
 
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Matt. It is much appreciated.

So this would be caused by the optical design? I would guess it would have something to do with diffraction at the outer reaches of several of the elements..? He he... I don't know if you could explain what might be the cause in terms that we could all get without first taking a optic physics class. But, if you would, please explain. It is fascinating.

Also, if you would, please elaborate a bit on your comment comparing (I assume 18mm) RPP to MP flare!

Hope you oblige, and thank you for your forum contributions.
 
I had the same rainbow flares with the
Angenieux Optimo's 16-42 and 28-76.

Though they tend to show up on
the top and bottom only, and the Rpp's on the corners only.

I guess its coating and lens design.
 
Generally I would not call the bulls-eye rainbow flares a pleasing effect - there was 2 year period, when I shot a bunch of rough music videos with lots of flares - the Bravery - Foo Fighters - the Vacation - Finch when I would have put it right to use.

I've not have any of the 18mm rainbow flares from lights in shot so it would most likely always be fixable by my grips, mattebox or an internal lens mod using a mask or blacking out the offensive parts. Once the warranty is up on the RPP's I'll get Matt D to crack those suckers open and the fun will begin. I'm digging the RPP's, but sometimes wish they were a bit more in size and weight like the ultraprimes.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
I saw something kind of similar on Zeiss Standards recently. It looked awful, so I unfortunately don't have a clip of it.

For me, rainbow flares fall in to the "ugly as sin" category.

I always wonder why modern lenses aren't designed to flare nicely. Beautiful flares are a wonderful thing, and it seems like modern lens designers are terrified of them. Seeking to minimize flare in lenses seems to make lenses that flare in ugly ways.
 
I agree. Though I wouldn't even use this type of flares in a flare-heavy music video. I would instead use old lenses with weak or no coating, old Super Speeds, or still lenses, probably both, perhaps throw in an old anamorphic. All based on taste of course. However, if this is the price to pay for such sharp images, t1.8 speed, lack of vignetting, low cost/rentals or all of them combined, then I am far more than just happy with the product!

There are tons of uses for this 18mm, tons. I wouldn't mind having to use something else for those few shots that would be problematic... though I really hope the 17-50mm or the 14mm will be the ones to cover us in those situations... then we are good to go with RED optics other than for all-out super-speed stuff. Do people prefer other lenses? I might shoot on i5's if I can, or MPs, and likely also the new Leicas once we get to see some samples, but I would only feel it as a need for the night ext stuff. I might consider Leicas or Panchros for specialty rigs that require feather-weight builds. That jib on a steady Tango thing comes to mind. However, being able to get stunning stuff with the not-so-slim RP family means that I can use the money in other ways, and still get what I want! Especially so with 5k RAW, even more so for 2k finish.

...the fact that this is the first "blemish" we find, aside from weight and size, is freaggin' sweet! One set of "90%" primes, or one "100%" lens? You decide.

Anyway, that is how I see it.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
...However, if this is the price to pay for such sharp images, t1.8 speed, lack of vignetting, low cost/rentals or all of them combined, then I am far more than just happy with the product!
Click to expand...

Roberto, I think most people here would agree with you. Just like the RED ONE itself, the RED primes are a fantastic tool at an even better price. But unlike slow boot times and faulty battery plates, this is the first glitch that actually affects the image, so it's important to find out what causes it, and if it can be fixed. It would be great if someone from RED could just give us their explanation, because at some point I am going to be on a set where I have to explain to the director why there are rainbows in his shot.
 
Julio Quintana said:
Roberto, I think most people here would agree with you. Just like the RED ONE itself, the RED primes are a fantastic tool at an even better price. But unlike slow boot times and faulty battery plates, this is the first glitch that actually affects the image, so it's important to find out what causes it, and if it can be fixed. It would be great if someone from RED could just give us their explanation, because at some point I am going to be on a set where I have to explain to the director why there are rainbows in his shot.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's actually that big a deal... I have not yet seen it with the flare making light in frame. You could prevent it with a hard matte or a flag, if you had the time. Other good lenses have similar issues.

I was merely pointing this out as a curiosity and to see if others have encountered it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Have you guys seen Sunshine, it has some rainbow flares , it was shoot both using Hawk Anamorphic and Zeiss lenses, not sure which lens the flares is from, probably the Zeiss?
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Probably is an issue of the lens aspherical design.

BTW, Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH. is a famous example of flare resistant lens :

flare.jpg

Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH. Flare is almost non-existant.
You really have to trick the lens to create flare.
See below. The sun is just outside the top left edge.

LINK>>>

But then a sort of "cine purist" DP would comment on this:

It's a still lens, slow and also Leica expensive.

But I would say don't forget this: Flare is almost non-existant.

Also is still cheaper than RPP 18mm T1.8.
Click to expand...


DUDE!

It's A RED DOT FLARE!!!

THE LEICA SIGNATURE!
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I haven't heard of this happening with any of the other primes. Grabs or it didn't happen.

I remember pointing the 25mm and 35mm at the sun, playing around for a long time, trying really hard to get flares. Nothing like this. Not even close.

I did see this type of flare on the first samples posted here of the 18mm. Not sure where the thread is. The one with the old teddy bear and BMW 3-series.

Here, I found the video in my computer: 18mm FLARE 1, 18mm FLARE 2, 18mm FLARE 3
Click to expand...

I don't remember if this was the 85 or 100, but regardless, I (sometimes on purpose) got these kinds of flares quite a bit from all the Red Primes. Love it.
 

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Will nobody from RED comment on these rainbow flares? Their silence leads me to believe that all RPP's do this to a certain extent, and that nothing can be done about it since it is inherent to the internal design of the lenses.
 
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