Roundtrip Issues (Premiere Pro, AE)

[Piero Sgarbi]

So, I've been testing some Round Trip options lately for my workflow, but I don't seem to get it right, every time I seem to get some kind of errors, either the cuts, the effects etc.

Basically what I do usually is:

Import R3D files into Premiere, add Audio, Effects, Cuts, Transitions, Crops etc etc..

Then I create an XML file and export everything so that I can open it in Resolve.

Now whenever I import in Resolve, I have plenty of errors, like several hundred errors, either the effects didn't go in, the transitions, crops look weird...

What is the best way to actually do this? Should I just color correct the R3D files separately ad then when on premiere relink all the raw files with the color corrected version?

At what stage should I color correct anyways? I usually do a color matching at the beginning and then I tend to color correct towards the end.


I am not really sure, I am looking at tons of documentation online but I still don't get how to perfectly round trip without any hassle.

 

[Roger Singh]

It sounds to me that you're doing a lot of online work in premiere before going to Resolve.

My Offline/Online process:

create quicktime proxies in Redcine-x with burn-ins of the filename, timecode and if HDRX was enabled. Also have any separate audio synced in Proxies creation.

edit in Premiere, you can do whatever you want with sound, and you'll fine using dissolves. Resizing works fine too but you have to keep your proxies at the same aspect ratio as what you shot in. So, 1280x720 proxies for 6K HD mode, but 1400x720 for 6K Full Frame. But, if you're doing an HD output. You set your Premiere sequence to 1280x720, and have your proxies scale to fill the frame. From there, you'll be free to re-adjust to what you want.

If your sequence needs to be a different aspect ratio than what you shot, be sure to create it first and then drag the proxies in, this will assure that they go in 100% sizing.

Whatever effects you add to shots, this what is recommended. Take the shot, and duplicate it. Put the duplicate on the video layer above the original shot and add your effect to that. I make a habit to have dedicated layers for certain things. All titles go on a specific layer, and shots that need effects.

Once you have your edit the way you want it export a quicktime reference file with burn-in timecode.

After that, it's time to clean up the sequence. Even though it's possible to grade with multiple layers, I always insist on editors on collapsing their edits to one video layer. Duplicate your sequence. In that duplicate, delete titles (they never seem to work in Resolve, FCP titles seems to be okay most of the time), delete the effects layer. Delete all the audio and then collapse everything to one video layer. Dissolves can stay.

From that, you can export an XML and take it into Resolve. Conform the XML to make sure it frame matches with the reference video you created earlier. Grade it, output DPX or quicktime at a higher resolution. Import into Premiere, copy the original sequence and replace the video layer with the graded video from resolve. You can then copy an past your effects over to the graded footage. You can finish your onlining/conforming through Premiere. I prefer to finish in Premiere over Resolve myself.

I prefer to bring in my clips first into the media window in Resolve instead of importing them through the XML import. For some reason it never works 100%. I'm way more successful when the clips are already in Media. In the XML import, the only thing I have checked off is keep sizing information (I think, that's what i remember from the top of my head)

But what I wrote above is what I've been sticking to for a while, and I always get perfect XMLs. It'll be different in version 12, but I found Resolve was useless for audio when you can't output audio only.

Usually, the workflow for effects is dependent on the vfx person that's on it for that project. Just be sure to figure out something that will work for both of you before editing begins.

I've gotten a lot more strict about how I want my timelines to be before I work on it in Resolve nowadays. There are a lot of editors that don't have an offline/online mentality and their sequences are a complete mess. There was this one time, I had to spend a week cleaning up someone's edit of a music video before I could grade it because he just filled it up with tons of effects and it his edit was over tons of layers. Now, whenever that happens, I just send it back and tell to clean it. Most of the time is fine, and it's all figured out before editing begins. I spent the time on fixing the music video because I shot it, I didn't want it going out ungraded.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

It sounds to me that you're doing a lot of online work in premiere before going to Resolve.

My Offline/Online process:

create quicktime proxies in Redcine-x with burn-ins of the filename, timecode and if HDRX was enabled. Also have any separate audio synced in Proxies creation.

edit in Premiere, you can do whatever you want with sound, and you'll fine using dissolves. Resizing works fine too but you have to keep your proxies at the same aspect ratio as what you shot in. So, 1280x720 proxies for 6K HD mode, but 1400x720 for 6K Full Frame. But, if you're doing an HD output. You set your Premiere sequence to 1280x720, and have your proxies scale to fill the frame. From there, you'll be free to re-adjust to what you want.

If your sequence needs to be a different aspect ratio than what you shot, be sure to create it first and then drag the proxies in, this will assure that they go in 100% sizing.

Whatever effects you add to shots, this what is recommended. Take the shot, and duplicate it. Put the duplicate on the video layer above the original shot and add your effect to that. I make a habit to have dedicated layers for certain things. All titles go on a specific layer, and shots that need effects.

Once you have your edit the way you want it export a quicktime reference file with burn-in timecode.

After that, it's time to clean up the sequence. Even though it's possible to grade with multiple layers, I always insist on editors on collapsing their edits to one video layer. Duplicate your sequence. In that duplicate, delete titles (they never seem to work in Resolve, FCP titles seems to be okay most of the time), delete the effects layer. Delete all the audio and then collapse everything to one video layer. Dissolves can stay.

From that, you can export an XML and take it into Resolve. Conform the XML to make sure it frame matches with the reference video you created earlier. Grade it, output DPX or quicktime at a higher resolution. Import into Premiere, copy the original sequence and replace the video layer with the graded video from resolve. You can then copy an past your effects over to the graded footage. You can finish your onlining/conforming through Premiere. I prefer to finish in Premiere over Resolve myself.

I prefer to bring in my clips first into the media window in Resolve instead of importing them through the XML import. For some reason it never works 100%. I'm way more successful when the clips are already in Media. In the XML import, the only thing I have checked off is keep sizing information (I think, that's what i remember from the top of my head)

But what I wrote above is what I've been sticking to for a while, and I always get perfect XMLs. It'll be different in version 12, but I found Resolve was useless for audio when you can't output audio only.

Usually, the workflow for effects is dependent on the vfx person that's on it for that project. Just be sure to figure out something that will work for both of you before editing begins.

I've gotten a lot more strict about how I want my timelines to be before I work on it in Resolve nowadays. There are a lot of editors that don't have an offline/online mentality and their sequences are a complete mess. There was this one time, I had to spend a week cleaning up someone's edit of a music video before I could grade it because he just filled it up with tons of effects and it his edit was over tons of layers. Now, whenever that happens, I just send it back and tell to clean it. Most of the time is fine, and it's all figured out before editing begins. I spent the time on fixing the music video because I shot it, I didn't want it going out ungraded.

Your work flow would makes sense in 2008. Why bother with quicktime proxies? Native Red files play fine in Premiere since CS 5.5.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Your work flow would makes sense in 2008. Why bother with quicktime proxies? Native Red files play fine in Premiere since CS 5.5.

So true. I got spoiled with FCPX at first and now with recent CC 2014, R3Ds are smoother to work with.

 

[Roger Singh]

I'm always going to stick with proxies, it's always faster working with proxies no matter how fast your system is, and It's easy to travel around with. It's not fun carrying 10TB+ of data of R3Ds around, and I still rather deal with proxies when it comes to long timelines. I and a lot of people I know already tried out R3D direct editing. Premiere Pro has had it for a couple versions now.

A lot of editors don't have powerful or huge raid systems. Sometimes you can sneak some edit time on your laptop while you wait for the plane at the airport. Sometimes you have to hire some assistant editors to log your footage and the office doesn't have anymore computers so they have to work off their laptops. Sometimes you have you have to upload all of the footage to the cloud for when the editor is not in the same location as the shoot.

Proxies are great because Redcine is very streamlined when it comes to syncing timecode audio. It's great, just have to create an OMF at the end, and Sound Mixer is very happy.

So the answer your question why? Quicktime Proxies are my preference because of portability, practically no strain on older systems, easy to set up cloud editing with, very low overhead cost when you're setting up 3 editing systems to offline edit a project.