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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rolling Shutter increase on new firmware?

Christoffer Glans

Christoffer Glans

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I just upgraded to the new firmware on my Weapon MG and I've noticed that the rolling shutter is extremely more apparent than before. What's happened?


rolling1.jpg
rolling2.jpg


R3D: Download
 
Do you have the same test with a previous firmware to compare this one too?

Have you rolled back to the previous firmware to re-test the rolling shutter?

David
 
This is the only clip I have with such a pan and it's extremely less notable.

Password: HDR

I'm not so keen on going back and forth between firmwares, does it mean just "upgrading" as usual but with an earlier firmware? I know some firmwares can't go back. This is the latest release built as well, not the beta.
Would be nice to hear if someone else with a MG noticed the increased rolling shutter.
 
That looks gross.
To the point of being out of character for Weapon...

I'll second David's request.
Also, is there a 'tech support'-like forum areas?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Would be nice to hear if someone else with a MG noticed the increased rolling shutter.
Click to expand...


Phil might be able to chime in. He's usually in-the-know about, well, just about everything RED.
 
180 deg shutter 25fps and that kind of camera movement, the skew amount looks normal to me. Now, in what scenario would you film anything like that?
 
Björn Benckert said:
180 deg shutter 25fps and that kind of camera movement, the skew amount looks normal to me. Now, in what scenario would you film anything like that?
Click to expand...

No it's not normal, I can see it bright as day that it isn't as it was earlier. It's back to Red One era skewing at this moment. Just compare the pan on the vimeo shot that was before the firmware update.

Plus, that pan speed is totally normal in productions and the speed is even faster in the vimeo clip.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
No it's not normal, I can see it bright as day that it isn't as it was earlier. It's back to Red One era skewing at this moment. Just compare the pan on the vimeo shot that was before the firmware update.

Plus, that pan speed is totally normal in productions and the speed is even faster in the vimeo clip.
Click to expand...

Where do I see the vimeo reference shot?
 
Björn Benckert said:
Where do I see the vimeo reference shot?
Click to expand...

Edit changed browser to see it.

So what was you shutter speed and stop setting in this "HDR" clip? HDRx if used helps the issue of pan scew, as the X track is in use you basically shorten exposure time / get less skew for that track. So comparing a HDR clip and none HDR clip for rolling shutter can cause some confusion. If doing so then you need to make sure that what you are looking at got the same exposure time as your none HDRx clip including your HDR mix setting. So if the HDRx clip you refer to is not an HDRx clip then this reference make sense, but if it's a HDRx clip with used X track the comparison is not done with all things being equal. If they where the skew would most likely be the same.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Edit changed browser to see it.

So what was you shutter speed and stop setting in this "HDR" clip? HDRx if used helps the issue of pan scew, as the X track is in use you basically shorten exposure time / get less skew for that track. So comparing a HDR clip and none HDR clip for rolling shutter can cause some confusion. If doing so then you need to make sure that what you are looking at got the same exposure time as your none HDRx clip including your HDR mix setting. So if the HDRx clip you refer to is not an HDRx clip then this reference make sense, but if it's a HDRx clip with used X track the comparison is not done with all things being equal. If they where the skew would most likely be the same.
Click to expand...

The thing is that the vimeo clip is the only thing I have from the old firmware, which was what was asked for. It's the only clip with faster pan speeds. I've tested shooting in HDRx as I did in that clip and the rolling shutter is extreme. But still, the pan speed in that first R3D is nothing special, it's a pretty normal speed for a fast pan. I've never seen that amount of rolling shutter since Red One (non-mx) and 25 fps 180 or 172 shutter is something I normally do all the time. I noticed this directly after I updated the firmware, so in my theory that's what this is about.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
The thing is that the vimeo clip is the only thing I have from the old firmware, which was what was asked for. It's the only clip with faster pan speeds. I've tested shooting in HDRx as I did in that clip and the rolling shutter is extreme. But still, the pan speed in that first R3D is nothing special, it's a pretty normal speed for a fast pan. I've never seen that amount of rolling shutter since Red One (non-mx) and 25 fps 180 or 172 shutter is something I normally do all the time. I noticed this directly after I updated the firmware, so in my theory that's what this is about.
Click to expand...

It looks like a lot i can agree so try boot with factory default firmware / hold start up button for a while and see if there is a difference. then try upgrade again. takes 5 minutes at most
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Did you try to downgrade your Firmware to see if it changes the skew?
Pat
Click to expand...

I've never downgraded before, which version can I downgrade to from the current release built and is it just like "upgrading"?

Björn Benckert said:
It looks like a lot i can agree so try boot with factory default firmware / hold start up button for a while and see if there is a difference. then try upgrade again. takes 5 minutes at most
Click to expand...

According to Red, that doesn't erase firmware, it just erase all in-camera settings to default.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I've never downgraded before, which version can I downgrade to from the current release built and is it just like "upgrading"?


According to Red, that doesn't erase firmware, it just erase all in-camera settings to default.
Click to expand...

Just intall like an upgrade but take an older build. (it just can't go past some old builds specified by RED)
If you press the powerup button it does reboat with the factory build installed, it doesn't only erase user settings.

Pat
 
Just out of curiousity - what lens/focal length are you using?

i noticed very pronounced RS with the new sigma 50-100 - I think it has to do with the optical design (length of optics to effective focal length)
 
Focal length is a big factor here. When I have shot just "normal stuff" on 200-400mm lens and there is too much wind you can get this kind of rolling shutter skew just by bumping the camera. Looks like you are on at least an 80mm lens on that vimeo example.

Here is the test. if you want to be sure.
Create your skew shots with the existing firmware.
download the firmware from a few builds back.
Install that FW just as you would "new" FW effectively "downgrading to a previous version.
Shoot the same stuff.
compare.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Focal length is a big factor here. When I have shot just "normal stuff" on 200-400mm lens and there is too much wind you can get this kind of rolling shutter skew just by bumping the camera. Looks like you are on at least an 80mm lens on that vimeo example.

Here is the test. if you want to be sure.
Create your skew shots with the existing firmware.
download the firmware from a few builds back.
Install that FW just as you would "new" FW effectively "downgrading to a previous version.
Shoot the same stuff.
compare.

David
Click to expand...

The lens is a 50mm. I'll try it out, but do you perhaps know which build I can revert to from the latest release build? Can I see the build on the metadata of shots shot on a certain build? That way I could get the exact firmware I had before.

Still, I did not see that kind of RS on my Epic Dragon I had before upgrading. 50mm shouldn't look like that, I get if it's my 85mm or above, but 50mm is a normal lens.
 
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