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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

rodney charters mx and alexa

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I think a test like this is going to mislead many people. He does acknowledge that there may be more in post, but that is easy to ignore when the pictures speak for themselves. On the monitor, there's no doubt the Alexa produces a better image. But there are just so many variables in there.

A sneak preview is nice, but I think it would be best if they had waited for the final test results after post. Still, it is great to know that people are testing M-X and Alexa side-by-side, and I look forward to a formal comparison/review.

One has to wonder if RED's commitment to resolution might be deemed irrelevant for many professionals who judge based on 2K projections and/or 1080p monitors? The Alexa does have a larger pixel pitch - it could count for a better image at 2K.
 
Subhadip Sen said:
One has to wonder if RED's commitment to resolution might be deemed irrelevant for many professionals who judge based on 2K projections and/or 1080p monitors?
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If one is shooting a television series, that is true and not inappropriate.
 
M Most said:
If one is shooting a television series, that is true and not inappropriate.
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To some extent. I am sure we will be re-watching the great series we love in several years time, though. Perhaps our home video systems will be 8K then. I can imagine watching Twin Peaks several times over the decades, for example.

Of course, in "future-proofing" something, there's a great uncertainty. So, the present filmmakers will simply say - "This camera looks better to me on this display. I don't care about Ks or Bits or Redcode or Modularity or Price or any of that. I just want the camera which acquires images that look best to me." That's what I meant.
 
Everyone benefits from more resolution whether they know it or not. Why for example would one choose to shoot 35 over 16 for a series these days? Plenty of shows have produced on 16- so why the bump if 16 will do?

Since the beginning of RED, we've heard the same line- the best 2k is from 4k. 2k acquisition isn't best for 2k presentation. It's true, so those who judge based solely on 1080p output aren't understanding the benefits of higher resolution base as a concept. Even those who are shooting for broadcast where the image is ultimately compressed can benefit when transferring to Blu-ray or a future medium unknown. The idea is highest quality acquisition for performance today and tomorrow.

That all goes without saying that Alexa is more expensive than the RED... at least at the baseline.
 
Monitoring settings

Monitoring settings

if you don't monitor it right in the set, the image on the screen can be very misleading.
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A question to ask would be: what was the signal range setting of RED ONE's HD-SDI output and Panasonic monitor's input - FULL RANGE or SMPTE ?

Because if there is a mis-match you can observe a visual symptom like this - clipped whites and crushed blacks (default for RED ONE is FULL RANGE )
 
from what i saw, red output is 720 (SDI 1 720) and alexa is 1080 (SDI 2 1080). would that make a difference?
 
With all due respect to the video and the people involved.

This is a test of the "monitoring path" of each camera. I do not believe that one can judge or compare the camera's based on a 720P video tap.

It's a bit like comparing the video tap on a film camera to the finished film.

I am sure that Mr. Charters will take both through post and decide from there, at which point there will be many factors to consider.

The Alexa was built to spit 1080P video out the video outs to an HDCAM deck or monitor.

The RED ONE was never built for this purpose or had this capability. It makes perfect sense that there would be less info in the highlights from a 720P 8 bit video tap.

The RED has never sold itself for this purpose. The purpose has always been RAW.

David
 
Rodney says he's gonna check the input but finally states 'Look, the camera has at least a 3 stop greater dynamic range its easy to see it and I think it makes a difference to the way I light and use a camera you have to decide if thats important to you get hold of one test it for yourself cheers'.
 
I think that Rodney's post carries with it a powerful message.

People are going to immediately judge based off what they get off the monitor without much care for ensuring everything was properly or equitably calibrated between the two cameras. If he can plug in a tap to Camera A and virtually instantly get a full (or close to full) representation of the cameras color space and DR, that will come off better than having to adjust settings and tweak formats to achieve the same thing on a comparison camera.

As Rodney wrote on the vimeo page:
"your[sic] right but onset I have to rely on that monitor on the set and thats where it is comforting to SEE whats on the neg its so much easier to make decision and faster"

In other words - with Alexa I can more easily the see full gamut of what the camera is recording. I may be able to see more in post with both cameras, but this one shows me more right now.
 
This is of course important test if they are recording HS-SDI output :-)

Rodney: ... "I have to rely on that monitor on the set" ... like midschool students?
 
Hasn't the HD-SDI output for the RED always been more of a video tap than a WYSIWG output like ENG cameras and even cameras like the Alexa? This is like saying that the video tap on a film camera is what you will get to work with. Yeah, that sucks to a degree (which hopefully the Epic will fix), but if you've done ANY work with the RED, you know exactly how much more you've got in the RAW image. Heck, what about even hitting the RAW/REDColor button to see what more you get in the RAW!

Matthew
 
Some ppl at reduser are asking whether the RED HD-SDI output is set to FULL RANGE or SMPTE
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This was asked on Vimeo..and Rodney posted stuff there..but didn't answer this.
 
Laco Zamba said:
Rodney: ... "I have to rely on that monitor on the set" ... like midschool students?
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I've never worked on a large professional production or with someone of the caliber of Rodney Charters. But I always understood it was pretty much an industry standard belief that one needs to see their footage as they are shooting it in order to make sure they are getting what they want? As such, DPs, Directors, and ACs would indeed rely on the monitors (be they EVFs, OVFs, or LCDs) to match the acquired image as closely to the desired ideal image as possible, especially while lighting the set. I could see Rodney being put in a difficult situation here with the RED judging only from that image on the monitor - is he clipping the whites or not? They show a bit clipped, but they may be there in post. Or not.


Matthew Rogers said:
Hasn't the HD-SDI output for the RED always been more of a video tap than a WYSIWG output like ENG cameras and even cameras like the Alexa? This is like saying that the video tap on a film camera is what you will get to work with. Yeah, that sucks to a degree (which hopefully the Epic will fix), but if you've done ANY work with the RED, you know exactly how much more you've got in the RAW image. Heck, what about even hitting the RAW/REDColor button to see what more you get in the RAW!

Matthew
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That's how I've always understood it, and highlights my point. If you stick these two cameras next to each other, it's easy to show one having more DR than another right on the monitor. That doesn't mean it has more DR, but it does appear to on the monitor. Which can be both misleading and confusing if someone doesn't understand the full range of RED monitoring options. Alexa seems to work and shoot more like a digital cinema video camera that can also shoot RAW, while RED remains a digital cinema RAW camera.
 
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