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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

rodney charters mx and alexa

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Heh heh... how much RED ONE M-X footage have you seen with blown out highlights and noisy shadows? Really?

Jim
 
I was observing this on my iPhone here from Salzburg but I couldn't get video because of network restrictions.

Unfortunetaly I'm not at home with my bradband connection.

When I saw it "Untitled"(!!???) at Vimeo as an Alexa vs. MX side by side test by R.C (he is known as a former RED fun) who

probably now changed its club (Alexa) my first impression was that we are already maybe in a sort of "deep ongoing war"

between both systems.

How?

First, I do not understand what he was trying to shaw us?

Did you here that "a little smile" in background when they started to show RED image...

Obviously it looks to me as a sort of already set up plot against RED.

Now I would like to ask R.C. and its mentors to show us a final result of the show

that should be about how you can get a certain final image out of both sysem at the sort of "unbiased" side by side test.

That means 1080p @ h264 (web Apple movie trailer highest standard) with a full description about

what they have done with those moving pictures from both systems in the post.
 
I don't usually chime in on posts like this because frankly I couldn't give a crap. But something really bugged me about the video when I watched it. Then I realised that it seems that every time the Red monitor path is shown the camera recording the monitor is tilted towards the light altering its auto exposure or the auto exposure is being adjusted. I assume it's an iPhone? I've attached an image showing the change in the environment at around 8 seconds in, 25 seconds and 35 seconds in. Look at the light coming into the top of frame and how much brighter the surrounding paraphenalia becomes. Seeing the differing images side by side certainly makes it clearer so I thought I'd post them.

Whilst I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt something doesn't add up for me. Perhaps it's to get a rise out of people on this board or more cynically to promote Alexa over Red. I'm not sure. But I'd certainly like the camera recording the monitors to have the same exposure throughout.

Paul

EDIT: Perhaps it's not the angle of the phone camera, but it's exposure certainly seems to alter. The last two images might be slightly misleading perhaps because there does appear to be a fairly decent exposure just after. Though I can't be 100%.

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HD-SDI output

HD-SDI output

I am not seeing a SMPTE or FULL option in out Pani 1710's.
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It's a configuration option on the camera : SYSTEM / SETUP / PROGRAM / HD-SDI
 
Its pretty cool how Alexa takes 2 frames, one for highlight info and joins them in camera to produce a better image... pretty cool tech
 
Red asked for one a while ago but they agreed to wait until both systems were at optimal performance. The thing is the only way for it to be done as scientifically and unbiased as possible is if both red and Arri send teams to a test run by an unbiased outside group. I could care less about people's preferences of ease in capturing an image I want to see the best possible image both camera's can create within the same environment and restrictions (lenses, iso, shutter speed).

Either way all this debate and back and forth is only going to benefit us all, as long as they are actual improvements and not just marketing tricks.
 
roryhinds said:
Its pretty cool how Alexa takes 2 frames, one for highlight info and joins them in camera to produce a better image... pretty cool tech
Click to expand...

I have proposed this to ARRI back in 2005 during our Kurosawa project - no kidding. The only issue with this is high speed motion and highly textured scenes (such as white-watter, trees, sports, high-speed action, etc...). But then You could deploy PMA (Pixel Motion Analysis) to re-align the highlights. However proper PMA is computationally very heavy and impossible in real-time... So I am not sure if this is indeed what is going on...

Peter
 
Stephen Matthews said:
Red asked for one a while ago but they agreed to wait until both systems were at optimal performance. The thing is the only way for it to be done as scientifically and unbiased as possible is if both red and Arri send teams to a test run by an unbiased outside group. I could care less about people's preferences of ease in capturing an image I want to see the best possible image both camera's can create within the same environment and restrictions (lenses, iso, shutter speed).
Click to expand...
ZACUTO !
 
The biggest joke I heard from R.C blog at Vimeo page when he was talking something about:

"this is the first camera in my experience to come close to matching films dynamic range".

What does it mean?

Arri wants now to sell a certain "knowledge" about DI experience with Alexa but they were not there from early beginning,

actually they came last there to catch up with the latest digital revolution.

They were making mechanics for analog film cameras that actually anything have to do with a film look

because a film look was mostly in the hands of Kodak and Fuji as a main film stock makers.

So, what now?
 
Also we had this sort of "foolig" about RED out image already with CML comparable tests with F35 and D-21 before.

That kind of "professional" cinematographer's comedy takes now its part 2.
 
Jannard said:
Heh heh... how much RED ONE M-X footage have you seen with blown out highlights and noisy shadows? Really?

Jim
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Jim, why not have Rodney and Bravin over to Red studios (or meet on neutral ground) for a proper test and run both clips through post, with each team having their own experts behind the lens and behind the post settings?

Of course, another question would be, should you pit the Red One MX against the Alexa, or the Epic X?

The dynamic range I get on my MX blows my mind, and I only shoot outdoors in challenging light conditions (the type Rodney mentioned on Vimeo).
 
Tom Lowe said:
Jim, why not have Rodney and Bravin over to Red studios (or meet on neutral ground) for a proper test and run both clips through post, with each team having their own experts behind the lens and behind the post settings?

Of course, another question would be, should you pit the Red One MX against the Alexa, or the Epic X?

The dynamic range I get on my MX blows my mind, and I only shoot outdoors in challenging light conditions (the type Rodney mentioned on Vimeo).
Click to expand...

here we go again asking them over for what? to comapre their daylate dollar 2short HD camera to what is presently shooting a 70+ million dollar feature? for what? just let them do their thing. the praises are the samr as the deadbeat d-20 and the so-so d21 and their copycat business model of comp upgrades. they need to worry more about cooke and leica than RED at the moment.
 
M Most said:
If one is shooting a television series, that is true and not inappropriate.
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What??

That may be true this week, but it's not going to hold down the line. Where's my Blu-ray of "The Cosby Show?" Oh, wait... I can't get one because they shot it in standard-def video.

When 4K becomes standard, all of this 1080 stuff won't be futureproof either. C'mon, you know better.
 
Häakon said:
What??

That may be true this week, but it's not going to hold down the line. Where's my Blu-ray of "The Cosby Show?" Oh, wait... I can't get one because they shot it in standard-def video.

When 4K becomes standard, all of this 1080 stuff won't be futureproof either. C'mon, you know better.
Click to expand...

oh come on ..not again! this 4k and future stories..
 
There is definitely something wrong with the monitoring set-up in this comparison....

We shoot Red everyday for national spots and it always looks great on monitors for clients- even though we know there is much more info there if needed for color corr...

The real problem with the Alexa is the veiwfinder- it is impossible to pull focus with- practically unusable....
 
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